The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:47 am

ZombieVito wrote:
PFM18 wrote: If it came from Toriyama it would have appeared in both mediums. If it only appeared in the manga, it's a Toyotaro idea.
A Toyotaro idea that Toriyama didn't correct or dismiss.

Also we don't know if he asked Toriyama about Vegetto's power. If Toriyama goes out of his way to correct minor dialogue for Ribrianne then an it's a sure thing he looked on Vegetto's power statement.
A Toriyama idea and an idea approved by Toriyama are different things. You're making a false equivalence.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GatoF » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:06 am

Piccolo(Top) vs Android 18(Top)
Piccolo(Top) vs Skinny Buu(Pre-Top)
Piccolo(RoF) vs Kibitoshin

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:40 am

PFM18 wrote: A Toriyama idea and an idea approved by Toriyama are different things. You're making a false equivalence.
Doesn't really matter. If Toriyama is fine with it then it's good to use it.

And it's not just the manga dude. Those stickers with power levels have Vegetto Blue stronger than UIO Goku and not that far off characters like MUI Goku, Jiren, Broly and SSB Gogeta.

Vegetto Blue ~ Beerus doesn't contradict anything on the anime so I fail to see why we can't use it.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:43 am

ZombieVito wrote:
PFM18 wrote: A Toriyama idea and an idea approved by Toriyama are different things. You're making a false equivalence.
Doesn't really matter. If Toriyama is fine with it then it's good to use it.

And it's not just the manga dude. Those stickers with power levels have Vegetto Blue stronger than UIO Goku and not that far off characters like MUI Goku, Jiren, Broly and SSB Gogeta.

Vegetto Blue ~ Beerus doesn't contradict anything on the anime so I fail to see why we can't use it.
Are you seriously using spin-off stickers and card games to power scale the anime? That ridiculous. It be like me using a video game what-if story to powerscale the main series.

And one again, you completely ignore the fact that the anime and manga have different scaling for most characters.
Last edited by ruler9871 on Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:45 am

ZombieVito wrote:
PFM18 wrote: A Toriyama idea and an idea approved by Toriyama are different things. You're making a false equivalence.
Doesn't really matter. If Toriyama is fine with it then it's good to use it.

And it's not just the manga dude. Those stickers with power levels have Vegetto Blue stronger than UIO Goku and not that far off characters like MUI Goku, Jiren, Broly and SSB Gogeta.

Vegetto Blue ~ Beerus doesn't contradict anything on the anime so I fail to see why we can't use it.
The anime has Beerus > Omen Goku > All of the Black arc. So yes, it does contradict the anime.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:51 am

GatoF wrote:Piccolo(Top) vs Android 18(Top)
Piccolo(Top) vs Skinny Buu(Pre-Top)
Piccolo(RoF) vs Kibitoshin
Piccolo wins r1-2 and loses badly r3
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:53 am

ZombieVito wrote:
PFM18 wrote: A Toriyama idea and an idea approved by Toriyama are different things. You're making a false equivalence.
Doesn't really matter. If Toriyama is fine with it then it's good to use it.

And it's not just the manga dude. Those stickers with power levels have Vegetto Blue stronger than UIO Goku and not that far off characters like MUI Goku, Jiren, Broly and SSB Gogeta.

Vegetto Blue ~ Beerus doesn't contradict anything on the anime so I fail to see why we can't use it.
Oh wow, it's like I start to use Italian Dragon ball lamincards in order to make power levels and scale the series.
That's completely no sense, sorry dude .it's just stupid. Such things can't help in scaling the series
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:48 pm

ZombieVito wrote:Doesn't really matter. If Toriyama is fine with it then it's good to use it.
Just because Toriyama is cool with it being in the manga, doesn't mean that it applies to the anime. Again, you claimed that it was "Toriyama's idea" when in reality it was just an idea by somebody else that he approved. That doesn't somehow, in some convoluted way, mean that it can be used in another medium where this person didn't even propose the idea.
ruler9871 wrote: The anime has Beerus > Omen Goku > All of the Black arc. So yes, it does contradict the anime.
No, it doesn't. There's no real implication that 1st Omen Goku surpassed the entirety of the Black arc including SSB Vegetto.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:46 pm

Here's an interesting one: English dub Goku vs. Japanese Goku

Some important differences:

- Dub Goku is faster than light in the Saiyan saga, by powerscaling from Raditz. On the other hand, his Instant Transmission only travels at the speed of light (or actually a bit less, IIRC he said 186,000 miles per second), while Japanese Goku's Shunkan Idou is instant
- Japanese Goku was over 8000 when he fought Nappa, but English dub Goku was over 9000
- English dub Goku was killed by Freeza on Namek and then wished back, but Japanese Goku survived
- English dub Goku is more altruistic and wants to give every villain a fair chance, while Japanese Goku just wants to fight strong enemies
- English dub Goku couldn't kill people or be killed until the Namek saga, instead he would 'send people to the next dimension' or be sent there himself
- English dub Goku has a father who was a brilliant scientist, so he may have inherited some of that intelligence
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:23 pm

PFM18 wrote: Just because Toriyama is cool with it being in the manga, doesn't mean that it applies to the anime. Again, you claimed that it was "Toriyama's idea" when in reality it was just an idea by somebody else that he approved. That doesn't somehow, in some convoluted way, mean that it can be used in another medium where this person didn't even propose the idea.
Can we just agree to disagree and move past this? It's getting annoying having to repeat himself to be honest.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:49 pm

PFM18 wrote:
No, it doesn't. There's no real implication that 1st Omen Goku surpassed the entirety of the Black arc including SSB Vegetto.
Yes there is, its simple logic:

Suppressed Jiren was said to be the strongest enemy ever by Goku, Vegeta & Shin. That obviously means he's stronger than Infinite Zamasu (who is stronger than Black arc Vegito, Hope Sword Trunks & Merged Zamasu).

1st Omen Goku fought Suppressed Jiren evenly in ep.110. So by default, he would stronger than everyone in the Black arc.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:09 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
PFM18 wrote: Just because Toriyama is cool with it being in the manga, doesn't mean that it applies to the anime. Again, you claimed that it was "Toriyama's idea" when in reality it was just an idea by somebody else that he approved. That doesn't somehow, in some convoluted way, mean that it can be used in another medium where this person didn't even propose the idea.
Can we just agree to disagree and move past this? It's getting annoying having to repeat himself to be honest.
Your argument is contradicting itself and falling over itself in the most incoherent way. I was hoping you would actually realize that instead of being stubborn.
ruler9871 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
No, it doesn't. There's no real implication that 1st Omen Goku surpassed the entirety of the Black arc including SSB Vegetto.
Yes there is, its simple logic:

Suppressed Jiren was said to be the strongest enemy ever by Goku, Vegeta & Shin. That obviously means he's stronger than Infinite Zamasu (who is stronger than Black arc Vegito, Hope Sword Trunks & Merged Zamasu).

1st Omen Goku fought Suppressed Jiren evenly in ep.110. So by default, he would stronger than everyone in the Black arc.
This is the Versus thread, so I think I'm going to end it here.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:17 pm

ruler9871 wrote:SSB Goku (Late Namek Arc) vs SSG Goku (BoG)
SSG Vegeta (DBS Broly) vs SSB Copy-Vegeta
SSJ3 Future Trunks (Cell Games) vs Fat Buu (Buu arc)
SSJ1 Goku (Start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell
Krillin & Tien (both Cell Games) vs Base Goku & Base Vegeta (both End of Namek arc)
Ultimate Gohan (ToP) vs SSG Goku (End of ToP)
Android 17 (ToP) vs Ikari Broly
SSJ1 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs God Toppo
SSJ1 Kefla vs SSBKKx20 Goku (when he fought her, full stamina) & SSB Vegeta (ep.122)
Piccolo (Buu arc) vs Semi-Perfect Cell & Android 16
- Pass.
- Blue > God always.
- Pass.
- Goku probably surpassed him in the Buu saga, so a later version would undoubtedly win.
- The Saiyans are MUCH stronger, probably any of them would solo. The Earthlings' only chance is the shinkikoho + kienzan combo, but I think it wouldn't work against the both of them.
- Gohan. He was stronger than Dyspo, SsjG Goku wasn't.
- 17's plot armor can't save his butt this time. :mrgreen:
- There's no way Ssj Gogeta can win.
- Goku wins by himself.
- 16 is trash compared to him, but Cell would beat him (with difficulty).

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:34 am

Blue > God always.
No, not really. Transformations are multipliers, not tiers. That means that, ssg can be > ssb exactly like ssj can be > ssj3, if the ssg guy has a base form stronger that the ssb guy by a good amount
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:53 am

ruler9871 wrote:SSB Goku (Late Namek Arc) vs SSG Goku (BoG)
SSG Vegeta (DBS Broly) vs SSB Copy-Vegeta
SSJ3 Future Trunks (Cell Games) vs Fat Buu (Buu arc)
SSJ1 Goku (Start of BoG) vs Super Perfect Cell
Krillin & Tien (both Cell Games) vs Base Goku & Base Vegeta (both End of Namek arc)
Ultimate Gohan (ToP) vs SSG Goku (End of ToP)
Android 17 (ToP) vs Ikari Broly
SSJ1 Gogeta (DBS Broly) vs God Toppo
SSJ1 Kefla vs SSBKKx20 Goku (when he fought her, full stamina) & SSB Vegeta (ep.122)
Piccolo (Buu arc) vs Semi-Perfect Cell & Android 16
Blue Goku wins.
Copy Vegeta finger flicks.
Boo one shots.
Perfect Cell doesn't even need his Zenkai power up to win.
Goku just one shots them both with Kaioken.
Gohan finger flicks.
17 wins.
God Toppo one shots.
Kefla makes a mockery out of them and when shes tired out them, she finger flicks them both.
Piccolo one shots them both.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:21 pm

Base Vegito (Early ToP) vs Golden Freeza (ToP)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs MSSJ Goku (Cell Games)
Fatigued Jiren (ep.131) vs Android 18 & Piccolo (both ToP)
UI Omen Goku (Namek arc) vs Base Vegito (Buu arc)
SSBE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Ultimate Gohan (Buu arc)
SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)
SSJ1 Kale vs SSJ2 Future Trunks (end of Black arc)
Base Vegito (Saiyan arc) vs 100% Freeza (Namek arc)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc post-Rosat) vs Piccolo (BoG)
SSJ2 Vegeta (Shadow Dragon arc) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Buu arc)
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:57 pm

ruler9871 wrote:Base Vegito (Early ToP) vs Golden Freeza (ToP)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs MSSJ Goku (Cell Games)
Fatigued Jiren (ep.131) vs Android 18 & Piccolo (both ToP)
UI Omen Goku (Namek arc) vs Base Vegito (Buu arc)
SSBE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Ultimate Gohan (Buu arc)
SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)
SSJ1 Kale vs SSJ2 Future Trunks (end of Black arc)
Base Vegito (Saiyan arc) vs 100% Freeza (Namek arc)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc post-Rosat) vs Piccolo (BoG)
SSJ2 Vegeta (Shadow Dragon arc) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Buu arc)
R1 if we scale vegetto in the way the new broly movie teaches us, vegeta wins. Otherwise, golden freezer rapes
R2 base gotenks rapes
R3 jiren still wins
R4 I'd say base vegetto still wins due to the huge difference in base of goku/vegeta
R5 vegeta wins, considering that , to be ssbe, he has to know and use God kill, and that would boost his base a lot
R6 God goku from bog due to the enormous base difference
R7 kale wins due to goku's difference in base between the arcs
R8 vegetto wins easily without kaioken
R9 gotenks easily
R10 vegeta rapes in his baby saga base form no diff, kek.
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:20 am

ruler9871 wrote:Base Vegito (Early ToP) vs Golden Freeza (ToP)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs MSSJ Goku (Cell Games)
Fatigued Jiren (ep.131) vs Android 18 & Piccolo (both ToP)
UI Omen Goku (Namek arc) vs Base Vegito (Buu arc)
SSBE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Ultimate Gohan (Buu arc)
SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)
SSJ1 Kale vs SSJ2 Future Trunks (end of Black arc)
Base Vegito (Saiyan arc) vs 100% Freeza (Namek arc)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc post-Rosat) vs Piccolo (BoG)
SSJ2 Vegeta (Shadow Dragon arc) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Buu arc)
- Freeza.
- I really haven't got a clue about this one.
- Okay, this might be Jiren's weaker state, but he was still holding his own against three opponents who're much stronger than Piccolo and 18. He wins.
- Pass.
- Pass.
- Pass.
- Kefla brutally stomps.
- Pass.
- Same as number 2.
- Vegeta, probably.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:44 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
ruler9871 wrote:Base Vegito (Early ToP) vs Golden Freeza (ToP)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs MSSJ Goku (Cell Games)
Fatigued Jiren (ep.131) vs Android 18 & Piccolo (both ToP)
UI Omen Goku (Namek arc) vs Base Vegito (Buu arc)
SSBE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Ultimate Gohan (Buu arc)
SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)
SSJ1 Kale vs SSJ2 Future Trunks (end of Black arc)
Base Vegito (Saiyan arc) vs 100% Freeza (Namek arc)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc post-Rosat) vs Piccolo (BoG)
SSJ2 Vegeta (Shadow Dragon arc) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Buu arc)
- Freeza.
- I really haven't got a clue about this one.
- Okay, this might be Jiren's weaker state, but he was still holding his own against three opponents who're much stronger than Piccolo and 18. He wins.
- Pass.
- Pass.
- Pass.
- Kefla brutally stomps.
- Pass.
- Same as number 2.
- Vegeta, probably.
Its says Kale, not Kefla.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:47 pm

ruler9871 wrote:Base Vegito (Early ToP) vs Golden Freeza (ToP)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc Post-Rosat) vs MSSJ Goku (Cell Games)
Fatigued Jiren (ep.131) vs Android 18 & Piccolo (both ToP)
UI Omen Goku (Namek arc) vs Base Vegito (Buu arc)
SSBE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Ultimate Gohan (Buu arc)
SSJ Rage Trunks (Cell Games) vs SSG Goku (BoG)
SSJ1 Kale vs SSJ2 Future Trunks (end of Black arc)
Base Vegito (Saiyan arc) vs 100% Freeza (Namek arc)
Base Gotenks (Buu arc post-Rosat) vs Piccolo (BoG)
SSJ2 Vegeta (Shadow Dragon arc) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Buu arc)
1. According to DBS movie, Vegito one shots. BoG saga implies otherwise tho.
2. Gotenks easily
3. Jiren rapes
4. no idea
5. no idea
6. Goku easily
7. Kale
8. Vegito
9. Gotenks one shots
10. Vegeta wrecks in base
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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