The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Lionel
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1942
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:44 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:14 pm
What do you think the outcome of a fight between Piccolo and Dabura would be ? I don't think he'd win, but Dabura wouldn't have an easy fight either. Piccolo had 7 years to train, and is one of the smartest fighters in the story, so I assume he'd hold his own pretty well.
Piccolo from the Buu arc defeating Cell Jr would be a credible accomplishment in the eyes of many fans. I question if Piccolo from the Beerus arc could defeat Dabura. Maybe ROF arc Piccolo could do it if you assume that the training scene with base Gohan tied with the young Saiyan's outburst against Elder Kaioshin being sensed by Super Buu are indicators of how this post-unlock Gohan without his "Ultimate" state measure.

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4519
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:04 pm

Lionel wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:44 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:14 pm
What do you think the outcome of a fight between Piccolo and Dabura would be ? I don't think he'd win, but Dabura wouldn't have an easy fight either. Piccolo had 7 years to train, and is one of the smartest fighters in the story, so I assume he'd hold his own pretty well.
Piccolo from the Buu arc defeating Cell Jr would be a credible accomplishment in the eyes of many fans. I question if Piccolo from the Beerus arc could defeat Dabura. Maybe ROF arc Piccolo could do it if you assume that the training scene with base Gohan tied with the young Saiyan's outburst against Elder Kaioshin being sensed by Super Buu are indicators of how this post-unlock Gohan without his "Ultimate" state measure.
Piccolo in the RoF arc was weaker than a rusty SS Gohan. Piccolo isn't touching Dabura until the ToP recruitment arc.

User avatar
Lionel
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1942
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:56 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:04 pm
Lionel wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:44 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:14 pm
What do you think the outcome of a fight between Piccolo and Dabura would be ? I don't think he'd win, but Dabura wouldn't have an easy fight either. Piccolo had 7 years to train, and is one of the smartest fighters in the story, so I assume he'd hold his own pretty well.
Piccolo from the Buu arc defeating Cell Jr would be a credible accomplishment in the eyes of many fans. I question if Piccolo from the Beerus arc could defeat Dabura. Maybe ROF arc Piccolo could do it if you assume that the training scene with base Gohan tied with the young Saiyan's outburst against Elder Kaioshin being sensed by Super Buu are indicators of how this post-unlock Gohan without his "Ultimate" state measure.
Piccolo in the RoF arc was weaker than a rusty SS Gohan. Piccolo isn't touching Dabura until the ToP recruitment arc.
Is it ever clarified how the mechanics of Gohan's power in the anime after the unlock work? I ask because we catch a glimpse of an incomplete Gohan lashing out against Elder Kaioshin. Strangely the iris of his eyes are whitened out similar to SSJ. If the weakened Gohan from the ROF arc could access that power then who knows how strong he is exactly. We know the ritual requires over 20 hours to complete and that the vast majority of it was likely already completed at the time of Gohan's outburst (Super Buu was waiting 30 minutes for Gotenks to appear).

Frost is the mutual barometer I use for estimating Piccolo's strength in the Champa arc. We see how the Saiyans apparently use Super Saiyan to overwhelm him. If untransformed states could accomplish the same then why transform in the first place? Mind you, there could be a potential implication in Beerus arc SSJ Goku at the beginning of the arc challenging Kid Buu to a fight. Goku has only been improving since and two arcs afterwards he should be greatly stronger. By extension of Vegeta's seeming need to transform against Frost, I think there's an argument to be made of Piccolo likely having improved a great deal; enough to handle Dabura if the previous arc iteration can't.

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4519
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:11 pm

Lionel wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:56 pm
Is it ever clarified how the mechanics of Gohan's power in the anime after the unlock work? I ask because we catch a glimpse of an incomplete Gohan lashing out against Elder Kaioshin. Strangely the iris of his eyes are whitened out similar to SSJ. If the weakened Gohan from the ROF arc could access that power then who knows how strong he is exactly. We know the ritual requires over 20 hours to complete and that the vast majority of it was likely already completed at the time of Gohan's outburst (Super Buu was waiting 30 minutes for Gotenks to appear).

Frost is the mutual barometer I use for estimating Piccolo's strength in the Champa arc. We see how the Saiyans apparently use Super Saiyan to overwhelm him. If untransformed states could accomplish the same then why transform in the first place? Mind you, there could be a potential implication in Beerus arc SSJ Goku at the beginning of the arc challenging Kid Buu to a fight. Goku has only been improving since and two arcs afterwards he should be greatly stronger. By extension of Vegeta's seeming need to transform against Frost, I think there's an argument to be made of Piccolo likely having improved a great deal; enough to handle Dabura if the previous arc iteration can't.
Yes. Ultimate Gohan is a transformation so Gohan wasn't Ultimate in RoF. His base was weaker than Namek Freeza just like Goku's was in BoG arc.

Piccolo did improve but not that much since by episode 88 he's just Boo arc SS2+ level. Keep in mind that Frost in their match couldn't kill him, was trying to save stamina and Piccolo fought the entire fight on the defensive.

User avatar
Lionel
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1942
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:02 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:11 pm
Lionel wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:56 pm
Is it ever clarified how the mechanics of Gohan's power in the anime after the unlock work? I ask because we catch a glimpse of an incomplete Gohan lashing out against Elder Kaioshin. Strangely the iris of his eyes are whitened out similar to SSJ. If the weakened Gohan from the ROF arc could access that power then who knows how strong he is exactly. We know the ritual requires over 20 hours to complete and that the vast majority of it was likely already completed at the time of Gohan's outburst (Super Buu was waiting 30 minutes for Gotenks to appear).

Frost is the mutual barometer I use for estimating Piccolo's strength in the Champa arc. We see how the Saiyans apparently use Super Saiyan to overwhelm him. If untransformed states could accomplish the same then why transform in the first place? Mind you, there could be a potential implication in Beerus arc SSJ Goku at the beginning of the arc challenging Kid Buu to a fight. Goku has only been improving since and two arcs afterwards he should be greatly stronger. By extension of Vegeta's seeming need to transform against Frost, I think there's an argument to be made of Piccolo likely having improved a great deal; enough to handle Dabura if the previous arc iteration can't.
Yes. Ultimate Gohan is a transformation so Gohan wasn't Ultimate in RoF. His base was weaker than Namek Freeza just like Goku's was in BoG arc.

Piccolo did improve but not that much since by episode 88 he's just Boo arc SS2+ level. Keep in mind that Frost in their match couldn't kill him, was trying to save stamina and Piccolo fought the entire fight on the defensive.
I don't believe he was using his Ultimate power neither. We catch a glimpse of some type of intermediary state during Gohan's outburst earlier on which is what I'm interested in. If that power was accessible or some aspect of it during the ROF arc then it could go a long way towards reconciling Gohan performing better than someone who is indisputably a training zealot.

Do we take into account the short snippet from the manga of Gohan admitting to training in the ROSAT during the Future Trunks arc? We can only surmise as to how strong he became but since there is a past precedent of him making extraordinary gains in a short amount of time I would imagine he at least retained a strong fighting power by Buu arc standards.

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4519
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:20 pm

Lionel wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:02 pm
Do we take into account the short snippet from the manga of Gohan admitting to training in the ROSAT during the Future Trunks arc?
It's irrelevant since episode 88 confirms he's as strong as his Boo arc self.

User avatar
Lionel
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1942
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:44 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:20 pm
Lionel wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:02 pm
Do we take into account the short snippet from the manga of Gohan admitting to training in the ROSAT during the Future Trunks arc?
It's irrelevant since episode 88 confirms he's as strong as his Boo arc self.
Of course. I'm just questioning how his other states measure up in relation to that Ultimate form. I would like to know if he retained any of the power from Elder Kaioshin's unlock and whether it's accessible outside of the Ultimate condition. It doesn't have to be the Ultimate state itself. Potential unlocks in the past have granted a general increase to the person's ki -- even though I was at first under the impression that Ultimate merely consolidated all of a fighter's strength into an untransformed base state. I find it odd, really.

User avatar
p-hyvo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 880
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:56 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:47 am

Steven Bloodriver wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:58 am
1) Base Form Kid Trunks (25th Budokai) vs. 20X Kaioken Son Goku (Against Frieza).

2) Base Form Son Goten (25th Budokai) vs. 50% Final Form Frieza (Frieza Saga).

3) Android 18 (Androids Saga) vs. Android 18 (25th Budokai).

4) Super Saiyan 3 Son Goku (Majin Buu Saga), Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta, Super Saiyan 2 Son Gohan (Cell Games Saga), & Super Saiyan 2 Son Gohan (25th Budokai) vs. Super Buu (Base Form).
1 and 2) the kids. They can face 18 in base without losing miserably

3) they're foundamentally equal. Buu saga 28 lacks feats to put here above her android saga's power

4) well, that's an interesting take.
I pretty much have a particular way of thinking about butt saga, for Wich base ssj3 is just x3 ssj and the x400 is a fullpower ssj3, the form goku thought about using against kid buu
So, if to is standard ssj3 super buu wins, if not goku wins
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

User avatar
Xeno Goku Black
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:29 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:15 am

Super Saiyan 4 Xeno Goku and Xeno Vegeta with their newest Limit Breaker form

Vs

Super Saiyan Blue Goku with Kaio-ken X20 and Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta.

TheNingen
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:00 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheNingen » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:54 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:15 am
Super Saiyan 4 Xeno Goku and Xeno Vegeta with their newest Limit Breaker form

Vs

Super Saiyan Blue Goku with Kaio-ken X20 and Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta.
I would say the Super Saiyan 4's probably considering their power comes from God Trunks and SSB Vegeta and Goku. And apparently in the anime SS4 and SSB were equal..? (I know in the manga SSB is stronger) I would say SS4 LB's take the W

User avatar
Xeno Goku Black
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:29 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:30 am

TheNingen wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:54 pm
I would say the Super Saiyan 4's probably considering their power comes from God Trunks and SSB Vegeta and Goku. And apparently in the anime SS4 and SSB were equal..? (I know in the manga SSB is stronger) I would say SS4 LB's take the W
Well then by that regard wouldn't that mean Limit Breaker is only at best four times stronger than normal?

SSJ4 Xeno Goku - 1
SSB Goku - 1
SSB Vegeta - 1
SSG Xeno Trunks and Xeno Pan ~ 1

SSJ4 Xeno Goku Limit Breaker ~ 4

Whereas SSB Goku with Kaio-ken is up to 20 times as strong.

GatoF
Newbie
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:55 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GatoF » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm

What is the strongest character that RoF Gohan could defeat in dragon ball Z ?

UI Peter
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by UI Peter » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:43 pm

GatoF wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
What is the strongest character that RoF Gohan could defeat in dragon ball Z ?
Semi-Perfect Cell

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4519
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:19 am

GatoF wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
What is the strongest character that RoF Gohan could defeat in dragon ball Z ?
With Super Saiyan? His Super Saiyan self from the Cell games.

In base? He beats KKx20 Goku but falls to Namek Freeza.

User avatar
Koitsukai
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1518
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:40 am

GatoF wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
What is the strongest character that RoF Gohan could defeat in dragon ball Z ?
I doubt the regressed to a weaker version of his first SS appearence.
He should be stronger than ROSAT SS Gohan, but weaker than Cell Games SS Gohan. I think weaker than the Golden Warrior too, or at least not stronger.

User avatar
Noah
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7625
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:56 pm
Location: Virtual World

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:23 pm

UI Peter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:43 pm
GatoF wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
What is the strongest character that RoF Gohan could defeat in DBZ?
Semi-Perfect Cell
You got to be kidding.
乃亜

Top 10 DB/Z/GT Songs

Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?

User avatar
DBZ Macky
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:29 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:33 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:19 am
GatoF wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
What is the strongest character that RoF Gohan could defeat in dragon ball Z ?
With Super Saiyan? His Super Saiyan self from the Cell games.

In base? He beats KKx20 Goku but falls to Namek Freeza.
Agreed, I feel the same way. But what's your opinion on Base Gohan performing better than Piccolo in the Anime, and being stated to be the strongest of the group (if I recall correctly) even before Gohan pulled out Super Saiyan?
UI Peter wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:43 pm
GatoF wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
What is the strongest character that RoF Gohan could defeat in dragon ball Z ?
Semi-Perfect Cell
I doubt Gohan got that much weaker. He did surpass Boo Arc Goku in equal forms after training with the Z-Sword, so even if he got weaker, he likely still wouldn't be weaker than Cell Games Gohan in my opinion.

Even Goten and Trunks were able to hold their own against multiple Cell Juniors in the Manga, and I don't think Gohan should be weaker than them, no matter how rusty he gets.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You're in the DB community, it's always a power level thread to someone.

User avatar
ZombieVito
I Live Here
Posts: 4519
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:09 am

DBZ Macky wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:33 am
Agreed, I feel the same way. But what's your opinion on Base Gohan performing better than Piccolo in the Anime, and being stated to be the strongest of the group (if I recall correctly) even before Gohan pulled out Super Saiyan?
He didn't.

After Tagoma one shotted him, Piccolo smugly challanged him and didn't even took his weighted clothes off. Piccolo doesn't undersestimate his opponents so he legit thought he could take Tagoma after he defeated base Gohan.

Also when Gohan faced Ginyu, the latter said the formers power was puny.

SS Gohan > Ginyu > Tagoma > Piccolo >>> base Gohan.

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 2213
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:18 am

Corrupted Fused Zamasu vs. Anilaza, can Zamasu break his core like 17 did? Or does he lose 1v1 (there's no one to keep Anilaza busy in a beam struggle)?
My form is justice. And my form is the world. Worship me. Give praise unto me. Me, the beautiful, the sublime... Me, the invincible, the almighty and divine... All hail Zamasu.

LegendBroly
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:02 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LegendBroly » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:14 pm

Saw someone called Vegeta something saying Goku skills are done lool the man can break Vegeta in half while sleeping.

Post Reply