The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Triggered Vegeta
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:33 pm

Moro(7-3) with crystals vs UI Goku... Could Moro's stolen techniques close the gap or is Goku still too much?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:24 pm

Triggered Vegeta wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:33 pm
Moro(7-3) with crystals vs UI Goku... Could Moro's stolen techniques close the gap or is Goku still too much?
I don't think the crystals would help him at all. He couldn't finish a sentence that Goku already had his thigh deep inside his stomach, he can't use his crystals against that kind of speed.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:14 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:18 am
Corrupted Fused Zamasu vs. Anilaza, can Zamasu break his core like 17 did? Or does he lose 1v1 (there's no one to keep Anilaza busy in a beam struggle)?
Zamasu stomps easily. The difference is incredibly huge.

Anilaza fell to Blue tier characters. Corrupted Zamasu held his ground against a Blue fusion (Blue tier character * SSB multiplier).

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by FishermanJohnWest » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:02 am

Triggered Vegeta wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:33 pm
Moro(7-3) with crystals vs UI Goku... Could Moro's stolen techniques close the gap or is Goku still too much?
Depends if he lost Piccolo ability to regenerate

Cause the guy lost his arm and wasn't bothered at all

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:57 pm

Here are some more versus matches:

1. MSSJ Goku, MSSJ Gohan, SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Future Trunks and Piccolo (all Cell Games) vs 2 Multi-Formed Cells and the 7 Cell Jrs

2. Vegeta vs Piccolo vs Tenshinhan (equal power levels)

3. SSJ Cabba and Botamo (Champa arc) vs Freeza (100%) and Ginyu-Tagoma (ROF arc)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:42 am

Lionel wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:57 pm
Here are some more versus matches:

1. MSSJ Goku, MSSJ Gohan, SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Future Trunks and Piccolo (all Cell Games) vs 2 Multi-Formed Cells and the 7 Cell Jrs

2. Vegeta vs Piccolo vs Tenshinhan (equal power levels)

3. SSJ Cabba and Botamo (Champa arc) vs Freeza (100%) and Ginyu-Tagoma (ROF arc)
So it depends on if you mean two full power cells split into 4/8 or like two halves of one Cell?

Gohan and Goku can both beat a half Cell or a Cell Jr. Each.

Vegeta and Piccolo and Trunks can stall a Junior each.

So it's a case of each person fighting 2 except for Piccolo who gets to fight one?

Assuming Goku is full health?

I'm not sure if SS1 Gohan and Goku can beat two at once...

If Goku or Gohan can beat two at once they work join the others and gradually defeat them all. But if the two are two much Trunks/Veg/Piccolo get defeated before Goku and Gohan can win their matches they get ganged up on.

It's hard to say how it'd play out.

Well saiyans seem to have increased durability and Piccolo has regen so In terms of non hax power:

Piccolo
Vegeta
Tenshinhan

With Kikoho

Ten
Piccolo
Vegeta

With just martial arts skill being judged and say put into identical robot bodies:

Piccolo
Ten
Vegeta

Regarding the freeza fight.

Botamo can stall either one for ages as there's no easy ring out in this battle.

RoF is weird as it's "early adaption weirdness" and "canon discontinuity" that Goku could fight Freeza in base form.
Gohan is also weird.
He's lost a lot of power but is still ahead of a Piccolo who's never stopped training even in only a rusty SS1.
We don't know if when SS1 he is tapping into some of his above average potential or not.
Remember Gohan was stronger than Goku in the Cell games, the SS is just a multiplier.

That being said given how easily he stomps even Ginyu tagoma, and slightly tired already before doing so, and given that he put up some fight against Vegeta even though you could say he was sandbagging.... I think he still takes it easily even lowballing Cabba.

Manga the win is even easier.

As for how strong Botamo is on his own I don't think we really know. In XV2 Piccolo rings him out, which doesn't prove he's stronger but Piccolo isn't said to be getting stomped before he does it so there's that....

Then comes Freeza.... Given how badly he owned SS Gohan in his first form, bearing in mind each transformation doubles his power and 100% is then much higher than that... I think U6 are fucked.

Even going by the anime SS1 is required to beat final form Frost who is weaker than Freeza in the same form. So retroactively you do need more then base to beat him... So if the base thing is still canon it must have been beyond god or some shit. It's confusing and the anime scaling is completely fucked.

Manga wise we never see the fight. But Freeza puts up a really good fight against Caulifla who's much stronger then Cabba.
However this Freeza is also an unknown amount stronger than the Freeza from RoF so again it's hard to say.

I think Freezas power up was not much greater mostly just fixing the gold stamina issue and keeping pace with Goku and vegeta proportionally beyond that.

We also don't know how much stronger Cauli is then him. If he can nearly beat Cauli without the need to go gold perhaps he can more easily do it to Cabba. There's too many unknowns.

They never formally retconned Base fighting a 4th form freeza SS Gohan was scared to fight but everything else contradicts those showings so it's pretty impossible to say.

If Base vs 4th is canon then I guess Cabba wins, if 4th form is some kind of low God tier then I guess Freeza wins... but seeing as Goku roughly = future trunks who has had no whis training and thus no possible 2 base hax means this can't be true and thus Cabba must be stronger.

I dunno man my headaches coming back...
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:15 am

I appreciate the in-depth answer. I should have clarified better. I meant Cell having divided himself into two using the Multi-Form.

Now regarding Botamo, they would likely have to be creative in order to deal with him. Maybe send him to space so he can asphyxiate or suffer from the vacuum and severe temperatures?

My personal thoughts go back to Vegeta's observation of Cabba being match for him in base. I made the judgement call of using that statement to make the versus match of him and Botamo fighting a potential final form Freeza at 100% from the ROF period along with Ginyu-Tagoma.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:20 pm

I mean if he's about equal in base to a vegeta who's about equal to Goku who's somewhat stronger than in RoF then in SS he slaughters. It all depends on if you think Gokus base feat Vs Freeza has been soft retconned or not.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:37 pm

Lionel wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:57 pm
Here are some more versus matches:

1. MSSJ Goku, MSSJ Gohan, SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Future Trunks and Piccolo (all Cell Games) vs 2 Multi-Formed Cells and the 7 Cell Jrs

2. Vegeta vs Piccolo vs Tenshinhan (equal power levels)

3. SSJ Cabba and Botamo (Champa arc) vs Freeza (100%) and Ginyu-Tagoma (ROF arc)
Team A losses purely by numbers.

Piccolo wins since he's the more skilled or the 3.

SS Cabba finger flicks them both while Botamo looks in awe.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:29 am

I've asked this before but as I recall it didn't get an answer.

Turles gang versus the dragon team with Goku fighting Turles straight away and Gohan and Piccolo being there to help the humans from the beginning.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Peach » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:56 am

Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) vs. Future Zamasu

Android 17 (TOP) vs. Future Zamasu

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:11 pm

Peach wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:56 am
Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) vs. Future Zamasu

Android 17 (TOP) vs. Future Zamasu
Buuhan gets swatted badly

Close fight.. but 17 takes it if Future Zamasu doesn't have an immortal body... (Immortal body) 17 loses.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:09 pm

Peach wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:56 am
Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) vs. Future Zamasu

Android 17 (TOP) vs. Future Zamasu
Original Zamasu was weaker than SS2.
Future Zamasu may or may not have trained more I'm not sure but is weaker than SS2 Trunks/SS3.

Super Buu Gohan wrecks Zamasu so hard it's embarrising, but has to absorb or mafuba him or something to get round the immortality.

17 In the Manga is hard to scale, all we know is he's above SS2, we don't know if he's just a little stronger than that or like stronger than SS3 I doubt he's god level but Goku considered Zamasu no problem with a red god that possibly wasn't even full power.

So depending on how much you lowball 17 and how much you think Zammy improved it could be an even match or a solid win for 17. But obviously with the immortality it'd go to Zamasu eventually.

17 would be a good candidate to hold him off what with the infinite stamina and all.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:44 pm

Peach wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:56 am
Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) vs. Future Zamasu

Android 17 (TOP) vs. Future Zamasu
Future Zamasu stomps Super Buu. He was able to trade some blows with SSB Goku, he oneshots anyone from Z. Even Present Zamasu is enough.

Android 17 might be stronger than Zamasu but he cannot put him down due to Immortality and he does not know any sealing technique, so Zamasu takes this in the long run.
My form is justice. And my form is the world. Worship me. Give praise unto me. Me, the beautiful, the sublime... Me, the invincible, the almighty and divine... All hail Zamasu.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:08 pm

TobyS wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:29 am
I've asked this before but as I recall it didn't get an answer.

Turles gang versus the dragon team with Goku fighting Turles straight away and Gohan and Piccolo being there to help the humans from the beginning.
The only way I can see this scenario not happening like in the movie is if Piccolo and Gohan help get rid of the goons quickly and head over to Goku's fight to prevent Turles from escaping and eating the fruit. But I doubt Piccolo and Gohan can be fast enough to beat some henchmen and be there to aid Goku, so it ends like in the movie, Turles beats Goku, Piccolo and Gohan might have something left to face Turles with but not enough to defeat him, and Goku saves the day.
Peach wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:56 am
Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) vs. Future Zamasu

Android 17 (TOP) vs. Future Zamasu
In the anime and in the manga, Buuhan.
Present Zamasu was weaker than SS2 Goku, Future Zamasu was bested and "killed" by SS2 Trunks who had forced Goku to go SS3, so he hasn't become much stronger over the years. Buuhan is way past SS2-SS3 level, the power inflation hasn't made Goku close the gap with Buuhan, he is not even stronger than Future Trunks in similar forms, "retconning" fillers and RoF.
Also, immortality is useless against absoprtion, so Zamasu is fucked with or without the hax.

17. In the manga he is at least above SS3 level, probably closing in on god level. While Zamasu was only shown to be above SS level and was outclassed by SSG.
In the anime, 17 wins even easier. He is close to blue tier, while Zamasu remains SS2 level.
Of course, no immortality, he has no chance against it.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:15 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:08 pm
In the anime and in the manga, Buuhan.
Present Zamasu was weaker than SS2 Goku, Future Zamasu was bested and "killed" by SS2 Trunks who had forced Goku to go SS3, so he hasn't become much stronger over the years. Buuhan is way past SS2-SS3 level, the power inflation hasn't made Goku close the gap with Buuhan, he is not even stronger than Future Trunks in similar forms, "retconning" fillers and RoF.
Also, immortality is useless against absoprtion, so Zamasu is fucked with or without the hax.

17. In the manga he is at least above SS3 level, probably closing in on god level. While Zamasu was only shown to be above SS level and was outclassed by SSG.
In the anime, 17 wins even easier. He is close to blue tier, while Zamasu remains SS2 level.
Of course, no immortality, he has no chance against it.
Did you forget this?

Image

Zamasu stomps Buuhan easily.

P.S. No, there's no filler in Super.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:24 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:15 am
Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:08 pm
In the anime and in the manga, Buuhan.
Present Zamasu was weaker than SS2 Goku, Future Zamasu was bested and "killed" by SS2 Trunks who had forced Goku to go SS3, so he hasn't become much stronger over the years. Buuhan is way past SS2-SS3 level, the power inflation hasn't made Goku close the gap with Buuhan, he is not even stronger than Future Trunks in similar forms, "retconning" fillers and RoF.
Also, immortality is useless against absoprtion, so Zamasu is fucked with or without the hax.

17. In the manga he is at least above SS3 level, probably closing in on god level. While Zamasu was only shown to be above SS level and was outclassed by SSG.
In the anime, 17 wins even easier. He is close to blue tier, while Zamasu remains SS2 level.
Of course, no immortality, he has no chance against it.
Did you forget this?

Image

Zamasu stomps Buuhan easily.

P.S. No, there's no filler in Super.
Yes there is filler if it's not in the toriyama outline for both stories it's an embellishment.
Clearly meant to fill time to not use up outline material and allow more to be written.
Regardless, and I'm preempting someone being a pedant here and getting some bullshit dictionary definition of filler out.

Colloquially this is massive filler. It's a badly written story between two arcs that's never referenced again.

Even if we assume it's canon it's nonsense scaling of base=SS3 FUSION is contradicted by the champa arc having Piccolo even last a few seconds against frost who is stronger than this godly base Goku, that requires SS1 in top of that to fight. (Yes Goku weakens him a lot but he's not on deaths door and with that power gap frost would still be able to speedblitz piccolo, piccolo is not had time to get much stronger then the weaker than rusty ss1 RoF Gohan.

The U6 saiyans having no god training but being roughly similar.

You can say the U6 saiyans are just that strong for no reason which would be stupid as fuck from a narrative stand point as they have had no godly training to make em that strong.

You then have to explain the U7 native Trunks having no god training either but being SS3 tier in his SS2 and not being one of these alledgedly different U6 saiyans.

You then have to explain Gokus sparring match with Saiyaman anywhere they use equivilant forms

You have to explain the filler fight versus Beerus dressed as monaka where Goku is so retarded that he can't see Beerus arm sticking out of this obvious oversized costume. And how Chaozu can hold back godly base Goku....

You then have to explain why Ultimate Gohan can fight well against Goku after telling him twice not to hold back and not needing to tell him a third time or saying he still was afterwards. Who only gets one shot by kaioken blue and not turned to powder by his base.

You then have to explain how Roshi can beat that duck guy when he earlier exchanged blows with base Goku despite apparently gradually getting stronger the whole time since then.

And why they brought Red back.

Why they struggle against Moro's goons once they drop to yellow SS and below.

It's clearly been retconned out and some of toeis many hacky writers just got the memo at later dates.

There's more evidence to the contrary and it's never the case in the other medium.

You can tell stuff like the monaka fight, the baseball episode are obvious filler between the main arcs and it's dishonest to pretend there isn't a difference.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:58 am

That arc is not filler. The anime of Super is not based on the manga and thus has its own continuity. In the anime continuity, the Copy Vegeta arc is canon, since Goku references those events while Vegeta is fighting Goku Black.

Image
My form is justice. And my form is the world. Worship me. Give praise unto me. Me, the beautiful, the sublime... Me, the invincible, the almighty and divine... All hail Zamasu.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:23 am

You beat me on posting that. :P

Is RoF also filler? :lol:

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TobyS » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:47 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:23 am
You beat me on posting that. :P

Is RoF also filler? :lol:
Someone pick up that phone I called it "it's not filler cause it's referenced in an arc which was based off the outline" pedantry.
The line of dialogue is toei filler.

Filler is shorthand for
"stupid Toei invented bullshit that isn't in the outline of the original author and thus not canon in any meaningful way and even though it doesn't fit the definition of filler you would full well know what someone meant when they called it filler unless your preference for the anime led you to being disingenuous and pedantic"

No but Goku fighting 4th form freeza in base who was simultaneously stronger than ss gohan in his first form is
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... continuity and been quietly retconned out.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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