Goku, Hell & GT

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Dorexx
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Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Dorexx » Fri May 20, 2011 8:55 pm

Small in-universe question...

Why did Piccolo have to go trough all the trouble to get Goku out of Hell, when Goku could have:

a.) Shunkan Ido himself back to Earth right away?
b.) Shunkan Ido himself back to Earth right away?
c.) Turn SSJ4 first, then Shunkan Ido himself back to Earth right away?
d.) Shunkan Ido himself back to Earth right away?
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Fox666 » Fri May 20, 2011 8:57 pm

& GT
There isn't much else to say. The Hell thing is a huge plot-hole, starting in the anime fillers before GT. Of course it's far from being the worst plot-hole...

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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by VegettoEX » Fri May 20, 2011 8:59 pm

As far back as I can remember, this has been one of the biggest stumpers that I've seen.

To be honest, I haven't actually sat and critically examined each of the reasons why and what may have prevented any of them myself, but I can assure you that this is one question that goes back to its original airing.
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Bussani » Fri May 20, 2011 9:05 pm

Do we know for sure that it's possible to teleport out of Hell? I mean, I know Goku can go to and from the afterlife as he sees fit, but maybe Hell has tighter security of some kind. Since this is GT and villains have bodies in Hell, this would probably be a good idea, or any bad guy who can teleport could just leave.
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Herms » Fri May 20, 2011 9:35 pm

Bussani wrote:Do we know for sure that it's possible to teleport out of Hell? I mean, I know Goku can go to and from the afterlife as he sees fit, but maybe Hell has tighter security of some kind.
Maybe when in Hell you're completely sealed off from the outside world and can't sense the ki of anyone outside, sort of like with the Room of Spirit and Time? I can't remember if Goku or anyone else in Hell was shown being able to sense people on Earth or whatnot.
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Fox666 » Fri May 20, 2011 10:09 pm

Bussani wrote:Do we know for sure that it's possible to teleport out of Hell? I mean, I know Goku can go to and from the afterlife as he sees fit, but maybe Hell has tighter security of some kind. Since this is GT and villains have bodies in Hell, this would probably be a good idea, or any bad guy who can teleport could just leave.
Considering that a simply connection of Ki can make a wormhole on it, it sounds unlikely for it to have restrictions or so...

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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by JulieYBM » Fri May 20, 2011 10:14 pm

Herms wrote:
Bussani wrote:Do we know for sure that it's possible to teleport out of Hell? I mean, I know Goku can go to and from the afterlife as he sees fit, but maybe Hell has tighter security of some kind.
Maybe when in Hell you're completely sealed off from the outside world and can't sense the ki of anyone outside, sort of like with the Room of Spirit and Time? I can't remember if Goku or anyone else in Hell was shown being able to sense people on Earth or whatnot.
I can just imagine Jeff with his inexperience with the series commenting during a GT Review of Awesomeness that he didn't think it was a plothole and then using that explanation. :P
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Bussani » Fri May 20, 2011 10:15 pm

Fox666 wrote:Considering that a simply connection of Ki can make a wormhole on it, it sounds unlikely for it to have restrictions or so...
I don't see why. What Goku and Piccolo had to do was obviously more difficult to pull off than simply teleporting would have been. That's the whole point of this thread, after all; why go through all that trouble when you could just teleport?
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Fox666 » Fri May 20, 2011 10:17 pm

Well, sounds more like a plot-hole for me... kind of how they can sense no.17 and 18 Ki, despite the entire androids arc being about how you can't do that

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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Kaboom » Fri May 20, 2011 10:38 pm

There's probably something supernatural in place to prevent teleporting in or out of Hell. Otherwise it'd be easy for Cell to escape, since he's got that trick up his sleeve, too.
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by oXdanXo » Sat May 21, 2011 3:33 am

Surely, if he had just teleported out, he would have broken the rules and then be sent to Hell when he actually died?
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by SuperForteX » Sat May 21, 2011 3:41 am

The answer lies in the episode where he went to Hell in the Z filler, I think. The only way out of Hell is that staircase that leads under Enma's desk.

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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Rocketman » Sat May 21, 2011 4:08 am

oXdanXo wrote:Surely, if he had just teleported out, he would have broken the rules and then be sent to Hell when he actually died?
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Savage68 » Sat May 21, 2011 12:45 pm

Fox666 wrote:Well, sounds more like a plot-hole for me... kind of how they can sense no.17 and 18 Ki, despite the entire androids arc being about how you can't do that
This may be a plot hole if there were some line somewhere dictating that the androids' power could never be felt. As it stands, Goku and co. simply learned how to feel their power (doesn't Goku remark on Spopovich's lack of seiki, or something in the Boo arc?).

Anyway, Goku was told not long after he died that if he were to fall into Hell, there was no escape. So yeah, it makes total sense to me that when he actually does fall down into Hell in GT, he can't just 'port out because he feels like it. That would be too easy.

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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Eddie » Sat May 21, 2011 1:09 pm

SuperForteX wrote:The answer lies in the episode where he went to Hell in the Z filler, I think. The only way out of Hell is that staircase that leads under Enma's desk.
That still doesn't explain why Piccolo had to be sent to an eternity in Hell to save Goku. Goku could have used said stairs and then used Shunkan Ido. We very clearly see him use Shunkan Ido at Enma's in Z.

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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Nazi Cola » Sat May 21, 2011 4:41 pm

Herms wrote:Maybe when in Hell you're completely sealed off from the outside world and can't sense the ki of anyone outside, sort of like with the Room of Spirit and Time? I can't remember if Goku or anyone else in Hell was shown being able to sense people on Earth or whatnot.
It didn't seem like Cell or anybody could sense Goku & co. while watching the Kid Boo fight, if that helps. Maybe they could, and Babidi's crystal (or was it just a random crystal ball) was there just for visual aid.
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by TripleRach » Sat May 21, 2011 5:31 pm

Eddie wrote:That still doesn't explain why Piccolo had to be sent to an eternity in Hell to save Goku.
I haven't seen these episodes in a while, but was there any reasonable explanation for that? I mean, the last time Freeza and Cell were causing trouble in Hell, Gokuu and Paikuhan were able to go down there temporarily to stop them. Why did it have to be permanent for Piccolo?
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by JulieYBM » Sat May 21, 2011 7:01 pm

TripleRach wrote:
Eddie wrote:That still doesn't explain why Piccolo had to be sent to an eternity in Hell to save Goku.
I haven't seen these episodes in a while, but was there any reasonable explanation for that? I mean, the last time Freeza and Cell were causing trouble in Hell, Gokuu and Paikuhan were able to go down there temporarily to stop them. Why did it have to be permanent for Piccolo?
He pissed of Great King Enma by causing rackus in Heaven when Enma wouldn't allow him to go to Hell to help.
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Rocketman » Sat May 21, 2011 8:02 pm

TripleRach wrote:Why did it have to be permanent for Piccolo?
Toei still held a grudge for having to animate the fight at the 23rd Budokai.

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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by TripleRach » Sat May 21, 2011 9:39 pm

JulieYBM wrote:He pissed of Great King Enma by causing rackus in Heaven when Enma wouldn't allow him to go to Hell to help.
Well, that was my point. Why did he have to piss Enma off and get sent to Hell, rather than just asking to go help? Why would Enma say "Nope, no one's allowed to go help when Freeza and Cell are causing problems in Hell, except for that time when people did go help when Freeza and Cell were causing problems in Hell."
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