Goku, Hell & GT

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

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SuperForteX
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by SuperForteX » Sat May 21, 2011 9:56 pm

There are so many ways to explain it, though. Maybe Enma reinforced Hell's barriers after that incident? Maybe after Janenba was released, he also reinforced Hell. Maybe they re-wrote the rules since then.

Maybe it was something Gero and Myu did to trap Goku.

The possiblites are endless. There's no need to call it a plot hole, too many open-ended possiblites to explain it away with fanboy logic.

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Fox666
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Fox666 » Sat May 21, 2011 9:57 pm

SuperForteX wrote:The possiblites are endless. There's no need to call it a plot hole, too many open-ended possiblites to explain it away with fanboy logic.
That apply to any plot-hole... even continuity errors in movies ("A wizard did it")

SuperForteX
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by SuperForteX » Sat May 21, 2011 10:21 pm

Not quite. Akira Toriyama openly stated the movies take place in a seperate universe, so there's no room for debate in that regard.

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Fox666
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Fox666 » Sat May 21, 2011 10:34 pm

With "movies" I mean any movie, not Dragon Ball feature films

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Eddie
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Eddie » Sat May 21, 2011 10:46 pm

SuperForteX wrote:Not quite. Akira Toriyama openly stated the movies take place in a seperate universe, so there's no room for debate in that regard.
So you're argument is basically this: GT is the canon continuation of Z, you can explain all of GT's plotholes, and the author explicitly said that the movies don't take place in the main universe. I see. In that case, I'd appreciate it if you would be so kind as to explain how a movie character (Coola) managed to appear in GT without creating a plothole.

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Dorexx
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Dorexx » Sat May 21, 2011 10:52 pm

Alternate unseen Coola appearance. :P
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GamingBuddha
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by GamingBuddha » Sat May 21, 2011 11:01 pm

Eddie wrote:In that case, I'd appreciate it if you would be so kind as to explain how a movie character (Coola) managed to appear in GT without creating a plothole.
Here's how I usually explain stuff like that. I take the whole thing as levels of canon: (1) the manga, (2) the anime, and (3) the movies. Since Hell was never shown in the manga, we don't know what it looks like. Even if it was shown in the anime, since it's a level below the manga, the real manga Hell doesn't necessarily have to look like that. In the same way, since the anime is a level above the movies, the Coola we see in the anime doesn't have to be the same one. He could just be some random evil guy that happens to look similar to Freeza since he's never even mentioned or explained in an episode. It's a pretty half-assed explanation, but it's all I have to keep it consistent in my head haha. But if you're not using my weird logic, then it's still a contradiction with the movies.

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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Nazi Cola » Sun May 22, 2011 8:25 pm

SuperForteX wrote:Not quite. Akira Toriyama openly stated the movies take place in a seperate universe, so there's no room for debate in that regard.
Really? I'd like to see that quote.
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.

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Milton
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Milton » Mon May 23, 2011 1:49 am

There is a possibility that Enma (at this point in the series) no longer saw Freeza or Cell to be as major a threat as the villains that came after them, and therefore would not consider them worth his time or energy. What if there were newly-dead creatures of incredible power that totally outclassed both of them and would routinely keep them in check? To me that seems a bit plausible, considering the fact that they were both so eager to team up with the doctors; they probably felt left out or ignored until both Myu and Gero remembered about them.

As far as Piccolo having to go through all this trouble to get Goku out, I like the barrier idea; taking movie 12 into consideration helps this argument as well, I think. If I recall, it wasn't until the dead came back to life that anyone noticed a problem with the heavenly realm. That means neither Goku or Paikuhan sensed the gigantic, yellow...thing...that had appeared in hell prior to being sent to check on things. If ki can't be sensed in hell, then maybe the use of certain techniques is restricted as well.

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Eddie
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Eddie » Mon May 23, 2011 1:54 am

^ There's a major plothole that comes up with that explanation, though. Movie 12 can't possibly fit into the timeline.

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Milton
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Re: Goku, Hell & GT

Post by Milton » Mon May 23, 2011 2:06 am

I see what you mean, but wouldn't it be possible that the writing team thought it would be a great idea to build upon? I guess another thing to back the theory of "can't sense ki in hell" would be Goku's shock upon seeing the oni when he fell off the Snake Road. Unless his sensing of ki wasn't that strong yet, then...well, I'm out of ideas. :?

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