Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing Long?

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Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing Long?

Post by NeoKING » Mon May 23, 2011 7:52 pm

Ever since watching GT, I just never thought that Yi Xing Long matched up to Bebi in terms of being the final villain. They say that Bebi was supposed to be the final villain, and it definitely shows, but when GT was stretched out all the way to Yi Xing Long's appearance, Yi just doesn't hold a candle to Bebi.

Sure, Yi was strong, but Bebi had operations going on for him other than his strength. He completely beat everyone in a game of chess that they didn't even realize they were playing, brainwashing the entire Earth and "killing" Goku when he got back to Earth in a twist-of-faith manner. One can argue that Yi Xing Long had everyone played from his first appearance as the Black Shenlong, but we have no clue of what he did off-screen, so defending that position would be pretty hard. Then you have his actual battle, where it was just a contest of strength and not as many twists like during the battle with Bebi.

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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Mon May 23, 2011 8:14 pm

Bebi represents the Saiyan's past coming back to bite them in the ass. Goku has already destroyed their former oppressor when he defeated Freeza, and now it was time for him to wipe the slate clean of his race's previous actions. In a twist of fate, the Tsufurians indirectly got their revenge when the Saiyans were mostly eradicated by Freeza, and the only ones who exist at the time Bebi is seeking revenge had nothing to do with that injustice, as even Vegeta wasn't born until after that war. Facing this threat allowed Goku to prove that the warrior race who loved fighting to the point where they would ruthlessly kill everything one a planet were no more and didn't deserve to be wiped out.

Yi Xing Long on the other hand represents the heroes ability to finally protect the planet without the deus ex machina that is the Dragon Balls. It proved to them that they need to be able to prevent the threat or work to rebuild it afterward. There can't always be a reset button, all actions have consequences and they should be owned up to. A relying on someone or something else never benefits anyone, and you should stand on your own two legs sort of thing.

I didn't really want to go into detail on them, and I kind of didn't go as far as I would have if I didn't restrain myself, but I think both are actually suited as final villains in terms of concepts, but maybe not in execution... which is generally how GT works anyway. lol
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Deep Thought » Mon May 23, 2011 8:26 pm

Yes, I'd say so.

The Dragons never made sense to me as a villain. Shenlog was easily one-shotted by Piccolo Daimao, so why are the Dragons so powerful? I know they are the evil energy collected from the wishes (which I also don't get, since only like two wishes in the series were corrupt with any "evil" intentions at all), but still, as nonsensical as a the Buu Arc was, Evil Buu was rightfully a fraction of Fat Buu's power.

The Bebi Arc (mostly) makes sense, and all the characters are actually used pretty well in it (though it's still centered on Goku far more than it should be). The Dragon Arc in particular was also really egregious when it came to that: there were seven Dragons with varying power levels (from laughably weak to very strong), yet Goku took them all out. Wouldn't the other Dragons' have, like, destroyed the planet while Goku was just fighting one of them?

Also the way YI Xing Long was destroyed was fucking lame compared to Bebi, so there's that.

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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Herms » Mon May 23, 2011 8:56 pm

NeoKING wrote:They say that Bebi was supposed to be the final villain
That's another thing with no real source, as far as I know.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by NeoKING » Mon May 23, 2011 8:59 pm

Herms wrote:
NeoKING wrote:They say that Bebi was supposed to be the final villain
That's another thing with no real source, as far as I know.
Corrected. It's better to say that it's been hinted at, right?

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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by CatouttaHell » Tue May 24, 2011 6:11 pm

Hell no. Yi Xing Long was an AMAZING final villain. He is far more fitting than even any DBZ villain IMO. It wrapped things up nicely having the Dragon Balls finally turn evil from overuse and the Z-Senshi having to learn to protect the Earth without relying on poor Goku and Shen Long all the damn time.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Xyex » Tue May 24, 2011 11:28 pm

NeoKING wrote:
Herms wrote:
NeoKING wrote:They say that Bebi was supposed to be the final villain
That's another thing with no real source, as far as I know.
Corrected. It's better to say that it's been hinted at, right?
My question is, who says/hints at it, cause this is the first time I've ever heard it suggested that Bebi was going to be the end of GT. On the contrary, what I've always heard is that the evil dragons were planned long before they got to Bebi, but the ratings had declined so much by the end of the Bebi stuff that Toei rushed through Super 17 and the Evil Dragons in order to finish the series before it was cancelled.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Wed May 25, 2011 2:42 am

Nah, I think the Dragon Balls becoming the final villain was a great idea, despite flaws with the way it was actually done.

Yi Xing Long was actually a really cool final villain... and I always thought it was a shame that he was taken out in such an underwhelming way.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Travis Touchdown » Wed May 25, 2011 5:53 am

I could see Bebi being the originally planned final villain by the clues; the Goku Jr. Special mentions him and NO ONE else when recapping Goku's last adventure before the 100 year gap and he remains in the opening credits ominously looming over Goku, Pan, & Trunks long after his death.

Granted, there's probably good explanations for these 2 things, but I could see where one could look at them and think Bebi was planned as the final villain.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Herms » Wed May 25, 2011 11:13 am

Travis Touchdown wrote:I could see Bebi being the originally planned final villain by the clues; the Goku Jr. Special mentions him and NO ONE else when recapping Goku's last adventure before the 100 year gap
That's because the Goku Jr. special aired right after the Baby arc wrapped up and before the Super 17 arc began. They couldn't exactly recap episodes that hadn't been made yet.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Wed May 25, 2011 1:19 pm

As for your other point, all that proves is that Toei were too lazy to animate a new opening for the Super #17/Xing Long arcs.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Wed May 25, 2011 2:20 pm

Herms wrote:
Travis Touchdown wrote:I could see Bebi being the originally planned final villain by the clues; the Goku Jr. Special mentions him and NO ONE else when recapping Goku's last adventure before the 100 year gap
That's because the Goku Jr. special aired right after the Baby arc wrapped up and before the Super 17 arc began. They couldn't exactly recap episodes that hadn't been made yet.
And even then, the special only really made "sense" with the actual ending, because it's really the only way Goku could have been there.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Cipher » Wed May 25, 2011 3:17 pm

Honestly, GT would have felt really superfluous without its second half It places emphasis back on the Dragon Balls and has some closure with the Saiyans' past, but it's a side-story if ever there was one.

The Evil Dragons close one of the series' last, dangling threads left unanswered by the end of Z: the over-reliance on Goku and the Dragon Balls. They're left with neither in the end, and while everyone is revived, the Earth is still in shambles. The Baby arc is fun, and it's some necessary padding between the Buu arc and the final storyline, but only the Evil Dragon arc is truly needed.

That said, I do with Yi Xing-Long had a bit more personality. He's rather nondescript. Baby has that aspect over him in spades.

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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by DBZ Mick » Wed May 25, 2011 11:02 pm

Yi Xing Long and the whole concept of the Evil Dragons was much better than Baby. I was sick of all that Saiya-jin stuff (only liked it in the Saiya-jin- Freeza arcs), however I did like the final fight between SSJ4 Goku and Baby.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by NeoKING » Wed May 25, 2011 11:24 pm

For the record, I assume everyone realizes why Super 17 wasn't included in this thread, right? As strong as he was, he was nothing compared to threats like Baby and Super/Yi Xing Long, who both easily qualify for two of the most powerful villains in the entire franchise.

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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Wed May 25, 2011 11:50 pm

Yi Xing Long is most definitely the strongest, considering Goku was fighting a "stronger than Boo" opponent in his base form, early in the series.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Thu May 26, 2011 12:03 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Yi Xing Long is most definitely the strongest, considering Goku was fighting a "stronger than Boo" opponent in his base form, early in the series.
But he got taken out by an attack weaker than the one that took out Buu. :P

There's no way they got enough energy from the other planets to make up for the fact that Gohan/Piccolo/Trunks/Goten/Kuririn and so forth didn't add their full energy to it.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Thu May 26, 2011 12:28 am

I dunno, the entire universe is a pretty big place. And strong guys like Redict contributed energy.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Thu May 26, 2011 2:08 am

Yeah, the universe is a big place, but who other than the inhabitants that Goku had met would help them out?

Redgic was strong, but only like Freeza strong.
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Re: Was Bebi Better Suited As A Final Villain Than Yi Xing L

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Thu May 26, 2011 2:31 am

Beats me. Keep in mind that this is Toei logic here. :D
君と再会ったとき 子供のころ大切に想っていた景色を思い出したんだ
僕と踊ってくれないか 光と影の Winding Road いまでも彼に夢中なの?

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