Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

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Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by goldsaint13 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:17 am

:D We know from SEG that Kaiohshins are born from the fruits of the tree... We know that demons are Kaiohshins themselves, but they are evil... They are called Makaiohshins...

Do you think that Darbula, being the strongest demon, may be a Makaiohshin?

And what about Bojack, Zangya, Gokua and the others...

They are similar to Kaiohshins in look, they also have a very high strength like Kaiohshins have... And they were sealed into Kaioh planet...

Do you think they can be Makaiohshins?
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by Fox666 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:21 am

Bojack is just a random alien species.

Dabura on the other hand is still a possibility.

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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by Dorexx » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:30 am

I always thought that Bojack and his men were some godly/demonic beings from the Afterlife, because Toriyama designed them the same as Jadoshin.
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:49 am

Bojack and his crew are from the Race of Hera.
Dabra? Maybe. I don't personally think so.
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by goldsaint13 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:58 am

Fox666 wrote:Bojack is just a random alien species.
I feel it strange...

At least, they should be from Cosmos, not from normal Universe... And being from Cosmos, they could be related somehow to the Kaioh race...
Dabura on the other hand is still a possibility.
He's actually a lot different from Kaiohshins, unlike Bojack anche co. that have more traits in common...
Dorexx wrote:I always thought that Bojack and his men were some godly/demonic beings from the Afterlife, because Toriyama designed them the same as Jadoshin.
:roll: :D Hey, good find!!! They should be definitely part of that race... But what are them?
Are they some sort of gods/demons? Like Enma's attendants (the one who turns into Janenba for example)...
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Bojack and his crew are from the Race of Hera.
I'll check about them...
Dabra? Maybe. I don't personally think so.
It's not even clear if Darbula is from the Hell under the clouds or from a parallel dimension...
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by Herms » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:09 am

goldsaint13 wrote::D We know from SEG that Kaiohshins are born from the fruits of the tree... We know that demons are Kaiohshins themselves, but they are evil... They are called Makaiohshins...
Toriyama in the SEG says that evil Shinjin (the fruit-born race that Kaios and Kaioshins are chosen from) go to be with the Makaioshins. It's however not made clear if the Makaioshins themselves are bad Shinjin, or just some other race entirely.
goldsaint13 wrote:It's not even clear if Darbula is from the Hell under the clouds or from a parallel dimension...
We know that Dabra's not from Hell, since Enma talks about Hell and Dabra's Demon Real as if they were separate places, when he tells Goku about how he sent Dabra to Heaven. In Toriyama's map of the DB world featured in the daizenshuu and later guidebooks, we see that Hell is on the bottom of the afterlife, while the Demon Realm is on the bottom of the living world.
They are similar to Kaiohshins in look, they also have a very high strength like Kaiohshins have... And they were sealed into Kaioh planet...
Bojack and co. were sealed by the four Kaios into a planet '"at the end of the galaxy", not into North Kaio's planet.
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by kaialone » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:13 pm

I dont think Bojack and Co. are related to the Kaioshin or other heavenly people. They just seem to be some alien guys. they're very strong but in Dragon World strong doesnt atumaticly equal god. As for Dabra, I always believed that he was more a political ruler of the Makai rather than Makaioshin, but I suppose its kinda possible ?
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by Pantalones » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:18 am

I would've said Dabura couldn't be a Makaioshin because he just doesn't look much like the other Kaioshins at all, but then I thought about it a little more...

The Kaios and Kaioshins don't really look much alike, either... and they're apparently both part of the same species (all come from the same tree's fruit, just Kaioshins are from golden fruits instead of normal ones.)
If high-ranked members of one species can look like pointy-eared humans with odd hair and skin colors, while lower-ranked members of the same species are short fat even-more-oddly-colored things with antennae, then it's not really much of a stretch that super-evil ones (apparently a rare exception) could magically sprout devil-horns and grow facial hair.

Heck, maybe their appearance isn't actually "set" at birth like other creatures, and instead it starts out kind of generic and changes once they grow up enough to have an "adult/full-developed" personality? Dabura is fairly generic-bad-guy-ish (I mean, being sent to Heaven because he's so demon-y that he'd actually LIKE going to Hell?), East Kaioshin's small and wimpy and scared of things, South Kaioshin's defining feature seems to have been his "big bulky warrior guy"-ness, Dai Kaioshin was a jolly fat guy... and so on. They all seem to kind of "match" what you'd expect a pointy-eared alien demon/god-thing of that personality to look like, don't they?
This would even help explain why one Kaio and one Kaioshin look female when they're all supposed to be genderless. They start out "neutral", but can develop into one or the other later when their personality and the rest of their appearance develops.

====

As for Bojack, they're apparently the last surviving members of the "Race of Hera" (which, as I found out recently, is not actually written/pronounced exactly like Hera the Greek goddess--written in Japanese it's "heraa" with a stretched-out last syllable, rather than just "hera" like the Greek goddess.) Which kind of rules out them being members of the same species as any still-living characters.
They all have the same skin color too, which would be kind of odd if they were Kaioshin-type things.

No idea what the "Race of Hera" was or any details about them, though. I think it was one of those things that was only mentioned in their description in one of those "info on the movie's main characters" things, like the home planets and backstories of Cooler's and Tullece's thugs. They could come from the "afterlife" region of the Dragonball universe, since there are apparently all kinds of things living there aside from all the dead people--odd things like Mr. Popo floating around somewhere (I'm assuming there's more than one, since... how would a random little planet like Earth ever be lucky enough to get the ONLY Mr. Popo-type thing in existence??), and Devilman's species is said to have actually originated from Hell.

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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by Bussani » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:55 am

goldsaint13 wrote:At least, they should be from Cosmos, not from normal Universe...
I know it's not an officially used term, but doesn't "cosmos" in Dragon Ball fandom normally refer to the whole ball (afterlife, universe, demon realm) rather than just the afterlife?
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by goldsaint13 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:02 am

Herms wrote: Toriyama in the SEG says that evil Shinjin (the fruit-born race that Kaios and Kaioshins are chosen from) go to be with the Makaioshins. It's however not made clear if the Makaioshins themselves are bad Shinjin, or just some other race entirely.
Uhm... Interesting... It would be good material for a new story...
We know that Dabra's not from Hell, since Enma talks about Hell and Dabra's Demon Real as if they were separate places, when he tells Goku about how he sent Dabra to Heaven. In Toriyama's map of the DB world featured in the daizenshuu and later guidebooks, we see that Hell is on the bottom of the afterlife, while the Demon Realm is on the bottom of the living world.
True... I checked now on DB Landmark and Forever (I have the Italian published editions) and they are clearly different... The Demon Realm is the corrispective of Hell in the Universe...
Bojack and co. were sealed by the four Kaios into a planet '"at the end of the galaxy", not into North Kaio's planet.
Are you sure? Weren't they freed by Cell's self destruction?
kaialone wrote:I dont think Bojack and Co. are related to the Kaioshin or other heavenly people. They just seem to be some alien guys. they're very strong but in Dragon World strong doesnt atumaticly equal god.
Well... Being stronger than Freezer's family and not being a SSJ or an artificially created being, could mean to not being from the normal galaxy...
As for Dabra, I always believed that he was more a political ruler of the Makai rather than Makaioshin, but I suppose its kinda possible ?
The question could be: are the Demon Realm rulers Makaiohshins?

Darbula is the absolute king but I suppose the whole nobility could be made of Makaiohshins...
Pantalones wrote:I would've said Dabura couldn't be a Makaioshin because he just doesn't look much like the other Kaioshins at all, but then I thought about it a little more...
While Bojack and his soldiers are instead quite similar to Kaiohshins...
The Kaios and Kaioshins don't really look much alike, either... and they're apparently both part of the same species (all come from the same tree's fruit, just Kaioshins are from golden fruits instead of normal ones.)
If high-ranked members of one species can look like pointy-eared humans with odd hair and skin colors, while lower-ranked members of the same species are short fat even-more-oddly-colored things with antennae, then it's not really much of a stretch that super-evil ones (apparently a rare exception) could magically sprout devil-horns and grow facial hair.
That's true indeed...

The whole matter could be useful for a sequel without Goku and co. (that are too strong even for gods and demons)...
Heck, maybe their appearance isn't actually "set" at birth like other creatures, and instead it starts out kind of generic and changes once they grow up enough to have an "adult/full-developed" personality? Dabura is fairly generic-bad-guy-ish (I mean, being sent to Heaven because he's so demon-y that he'd actually LIKE going to Hell?), East Kaioshin's small and wimpy and scared of things, South Kaioshin's defining feature seems to have been his "big bulky warrior guy"-ness, Dai Kaioshin was a jolly fat guy... and so on. They all seem to kind of "match" what you'd expect a pointy-eared alien demon/god-thing of that personality to look like, don't they?
This would even help explain why one Kaio and one Kaioshin look female when they're all supposed to be genderless. They start out "neutral", but can develop into one or the other later when their personality and the rest of their appearance develops.
That's an interesting topic... Demons may appear like Demons are supposed to appear and Darbula is almost the prototype of how a Demon may look...
Kaiohshins instead have a sacred look... They somehow resemble Elves from fantasy worlds and often Elves are depicted as divine high-ranked beings... I think it's a good look for gods of the Dragon Ball world...

Actually, I think that Kaiohshin appeared far too late in Dragon Ball story... He is one of the most underrated character but he has a Cell saga level of power and he often appears as almost a joke because the Saiyans are too overpowered but I think he would have rocked in the previous arcs and could have really transmitted the feeling of being a real god... Just imagine him appearing in Trunks' future to save the day from the evil Androids and blocking one of their fists with a finger saying they can never match his power since he is a God... 8) :roll:

Too bad he appeared too late... A real waste for a potentially very good and cool character...
As for Bojack, they're apparently the last surviving members of the "Race of Hera" (which, as I found out recently, is not actually written/pronounced exactly like Hera the Greek goddess--written in Japanese it's "heraa" with a stretched-out last syllable, rather than just "hera" like the Greek goddess.) Which kind of rules out them being members of the same species as any still-living characters.
They all have the same skin color too, which would be kind of odd if they were Kaioshin-type things.

No idea what the "Race of Hera" was or any details about them, though. I think it was one of those things that was only mentioned in their description in one of those "info on the movie's main characters" things, like the home planets and backstories of Cooler's and Tullece's thugs. They could come from the "afterlife" region of the Dragonball universe, since there are apparently all kinds of things living there aside from all the dead people--odd things like Mr. Popo floating around somewhere (I'm assuming there's more than one, since... how would a random little planet like Earth ever be lucky enough to get the ONLY Mr. Popo-type thing in existence??), and Devilman's species is said to have actually originated from Hell.
I too believe that the Hera Race is a race from the Cosmos... Maybe they are those like the princess on the Serpent Road... They just look exactly the same...
Maybe they are the strongest members of that race sealed millennia before because they ruched on destruction and conquest... I think that the normal Kaiohs were actually too weak to seal them... They should have been the Kaiohshin to handle the thing, since only them have those ranges of strength...
Well, Kaiohs can use strong forms of magic that can often bypass strength...
Bussani wrote: I know it's not an officially used term, but doesn't "cosmos" in Dragon Ball fandom normally refer to the whole ball (afterlife, universe, demon realm) rather than just the afterlife?
In DB Landmark there's a ball and the lower part is called Universe, the upper part Cosmos, ant it's the afterlife...
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by goldsaint13 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:02 am

Herms wrote: Toriyama in the SEG says that evil Shinjin (the fruit-born race that Kaios and Kaioshins are chosen from) go to be with the Makaioshins. It's however not made clear if the Makaioshins themselves are bad Shinjin, or just some other race entirely.
Uhm... Interesting... It would be good material for a new story...
We know that Dabra's not from Hell, since Enma talks about Hell and Dabra's Demon Real as if they were separate places, when he tells Goku about how he sent Dabra to Heaven. In Toriyama's map of the DB world featured in the daizenshuu and later guidebooks, we see that Hell is on the bottom of the afterlife, while the Demon Realm is on the bottom of the living world.
True... I checked now on DB Landmark and Forever (I have the Italian published editions) and they are clearly different... The Demon Realm is the corrispective of Hell in the Universe...
Bojack and co. were sealed by the four Kaios into a planet '"at the end of the galaxy", not into North Kaio's planet.
Are you sure? Weren't they freed by Cell's self destruction?
kaialone wrote:I dont think Bojack and Co. are related to the Kaioshin or other heavenly people. They just seem to be some alien guys. they're very strong but in Dragon World strong doesnt atumaticly equal god.
Well... Being stronger than Freezer's family and not being a SSJ or an artificially created being, could mean to not being from the normal galaxy...
As for Dabra, I always believed that he was more a political ruler of the Makai rather than Makaioshin, but I suppose its kinda possible ?
The question could be: are the Demon Realm rulers Makaiohshins?

Darbula is the absolute king but I suppose the whole nobility could be made of Makaiohshins...
Pantalones wrote:I would've said Dabura couldn't be a Makaioshin because he just doesn't look much like the other Kaioshins at all, but then I thought about it a little more...
While Bojack and his soldiers are instead quite similar to Kaiohshins...
The Kaios and Kaioshins don't really look much alike, either... and they're apparently both part of the same species (all come from the same tree's fruit, just Kaioshins are from golden fruits instead of normal ones.)
If high-ranked members of one species can look like pointy-eared humans with odd hair and skin colors, while lower-ranked members of the same species are short fat even-more-oddly-colored things with antennae, then it's not really much of a stretch that super-evil ones (apparently a rare exception) could magically sprout devil-horns and grow facial hair.
That's true indeed...

The whole matter could be useful for a sequel without Goku and co. (that are too strong even for gods and demons)...
Heck, maybe their appearance isn't actually "set" at birth like other creatures, and instead it starts out kind of generic and changes once they grow up enough to have an "adult/full-developed" personality? Dabura is fairly generic-bad-guy-ish (I mean, being sent to Heaven because he's so demon-y that he'd actually LIKE going to Hell?), East Kaioshin's small and wimpy and scared of things, South Kaioshin's defining feature seems to have been his "big bulky warrior guy"-ness, Dai Kaioshin was a jolly fat guy... and so on. They all seem to kind of "match" what you'd expect a pointy-eared alien demon/god-thing of that personality to look like, don't they?
This would even help explain why one Kaio and one Kaioshin look female when they're all supposed to be genderless. They start out "neutral", but can develop into one or the other later when their personality and the rest of their appearance develops.
That's an interesting topic... Demons may appear like Demons are supposed to appear and Darbula is almost the prototype of how a Demon may look...
Kaiohshins instead have a sacred look... They somehow resemble Elves from fantasy worlds and often Elves are depicted as divine high-ranked beings... I think it's a good look for gods of the Dragon Ball world...

Actually, I think that Kaiohshin appeared far too late in Dragon Ball story... He is one of the most underrated character but he has a Cell saga level of power and he often appears as almost a joke because the Saiyans are too overpowered but I think he would have rocked in the previous arcs and could have really transmitted the feeling of being a real god... Just imagine him appearing in Trunks' future to save the day from the evil Androids and blocking one of their fists with a finger saying they can never match his power since he is a God... 8) :roll:

Too bad he appeared too late... A real waste for a potentially very good and cool character...
As for Bojack, they're apparently the last surviving members of the "Race of Hera" (which, as I found out recently, is not actually written/pronounced exactly like Hera the Greek goddess--written in Japanese it's "heraa" with a stretched-out last syllable, rather than just "hera" like the Greek goddess.) Which kind of rules out them being members of the same species as any still-living characters.
They all have the same skin color too, which would be kind of odd if they were Kaioshin-type things.

No idea what the "Race of Hera" was or any details about them, though. I think it was one of those things that was only mentioned in their description in one of those "info on the movie's main characters" things, like the home planets and backstories of Cooler's and Tullece's thugs. They could come from the "afterlife" region of the Dragonball universe, since there are apparently all kinds of things living there aside from all the dead people--odd things like Mr. Popo floating around somewhere (I'm assuming there's more than one, since... how would a random little planet like Earth ever be lucky enough to get the ONLY Mr. Popo-type thing in existence??), and Devilman's species is said to have actually originated from Hell.
I too believe that the Hera Race is a race from the Cosmos... Maybe they are those like the princess on the Serpent Road... They just look exactly the same...
Maybe they are the strongest members of that race sealed millennia before because they ruched on destruction and conquest... I think that the normal Kaiohs were actually too weak to seal them... They should have been the Kaiohshin to handle the thing, since only them have those ranges of strength...
Well, Kaiohs can use strong forms of magic that can often bypass strength...
Bussani wrote: I know it's not an officially used term, but doesn't "cosmos" in Dragon Ball fandom normally refer to the whole ball (afterlife, universe, demon realm) rather than just the afterlife?
In DB Landmark there's a ball and the lower part is called Universe, the upper part Cosmos, and it's the afterlife...
Last edited by goldsaint13 on Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by Bussani » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:19 am

goldsaint13 wrote:In DB Landmark there's a ball and the lower part is called Universe, the upper part Cosmos, ant it's the afterlife...
Oh, you're right. I wonder why it's come to mean something else in the fandom.
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by Herms » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:53 am

Pantalones wrote:No idea what the "Race of Hera" was or any details about them, though. I think it was one of those things that was only mentioned in their description in one of those "info on the movie's main characters" things, like the home planets and backstories of Cooler's and Tullece's thugs.
Pretty much. Daizenshuu 7 lists the name as one of the alien races that appears only in the anime ("anime" here referring to everything from the TV series, movies, specials, and quasi-OVA), but doesn't explain what exactly it is. The Japanese Wikipedia page for DBZ movie 9 says that it's the race Bojack and co. are the survivors of, but doesn't give any source. So we know it's an official name for something, but we basically only have Wikipedia's word that it's the name for Bojack and co.'s race. Which I guess is good enough for me until any further evidence shows up. When each of the movies premiered, pamphlets were given out explaining the plot, characters, and other info., so the tidbit might originate from there. or possibly it comes from some Weekly Jump feature promoting the movie, like with the background for Coola's henchmen.
goldsaint13 wrote:Are you sure? Weren't they freed by Cell's self destruction?
It's explained in the movie that the 4 Kaios combined their power to seal Bojack and co. away in a planet at the end of the galaxy, so when North Kaio died in Cell's self-destruction it caused the seal on them to become undone. It's not because Bojack and co. were inside North Kaio's planet.
Bussani wrote:Oh, you're right. I wonder why it's come to mean something else in the fandom.
"Cosmos" is the English translation Daizenshuu 4 gives for tenkai (literally "heavenly world" or "heavenly realm"), one of the terms for the afterlife, and DB Landmark follows suit. I don't know about anyone else, but I've often used "cosmos" to refer to the whole kit and kaboodle of the DB afterlife, living world, etc. just because there's no official term for the thing as a whole and I don't know what else to call it.
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by goldsaint13 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:54 am

Herms wrote: Pretty much. Daizenshuu 7 lists the name as one of the alien races that appears only in the anime ("anime" here referring to everything from the TV series, movies, specials, and quasi-OVA), but doesn't explain what exactly it is. The Japanese Wikipedia page for DBZ movie 9 says that it's the race Bojack and co. are the survivors of, but doesn't give any source. So we know it's an official name for something, but we basically only have Wikipedia's word that it's the name for Bojack and co.'s race. Which I guess is good enough for me until any further evidence shows up. When each of the movies premiered, pamphlets were given out explaining the plot, characters, and other info., so the tidbit might originate from there. or possibly it comes from some Weekly Jump feature promoting the movie, like with the background for Coola's henchmen.
So they definitely aren't Makaiohshin... But it doesn't mean they are not from Cosmos...
It's explained in the movie that the 4 Kaios combined their power to seal Bojack and co. away in a planet at the end of the galaxy, so when North Kaio died in Cell's self-destruction it caused the seal on them to become undone. It's not because Bojack and co. were inside North Kaio's planet.
Oh, yes, Kaioh's planet was part of the seal, not the place where they were sealed...
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Re: Are Darbula or Bojack and his hencmen Makaiohshins?

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:38 am

Herms wrote: "Cosmos" is the English translation Daizenshuu 4 gives for tenkai (literally "heavenly world" or "heavenly realm"), one of the terms for the afterlife, and DB Landmark follows suit. I don't know about anyone else, but I've often used "cosmos" to refer to the whole kit and kaboodle of the DB afterlife, living world, etc. just because there's no official term for the thing as a whole and I don't know what else to call it.
Well, there is "Dragon World."
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