Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Kingdom Heartless
I Live Here
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:21 am
Location: QLD, Australia
Contact:

Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:37 am

It's something I was thinking about the other day. Would it work, or is their bond too strange a thing for Shenlong to deal with?
Yo! Cal's the name. Nice to meet you!
Lover of all that is pure and fun in the worlds of Dragon Ball, Jim Henson and so forth!
3DS Friend Code 1418-7854-8786. I'm always playing Pokemon, so PM me yours for Friend Safari and battling! :D

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Michsi » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:48 am

I thought about this too. I'm not so sure about Shenlong, but I think Porunga could.

User avatar
Gohaz
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:38 am
Location: United States

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Gohaz » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:40 pm

How exactly, they are the same soul/spirit, whatever you call, just split in two bodies, there is no way anyone could meddle with that, it is the same as the cyborgs-into-humans deal
"Hahaaaaaa, eat my dust, Piccolo!"
- Goku, Fast but not so Furious.

User avatar
Kaboom
Moderator
Posts: 14375
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: Funky Town
Contact:

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Kaboom » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:48 pm

Gohaz wrote:How exactly, they are the same soul/spirit, whatever you call, just split in two bodies, there is no way anyone could meddle with that, it is the same as the cyborgs-into-humans deal
I suspect something like this is the case. They're a single soul occupying two different bodies. Hence why when one dies, the other just kind of fades away, as though they're being pulled away into the afterlife along with them.
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised
[thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!

User avatar
Godo
I Live Here
Posts: 3361
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:25 am

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Godo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Kaboom wrote:
Gohaz wrote:How exactly, they are the same soul/spirit, whatever you call, just split in two bodies, there is no way anyone could meddle with that, it is the same as the cyborgs-into-humans deal
I suspect something like this is the case. They're a single soul occupying two different bodies. Hence why when one dies, the other just kind of fades away, as though they're being pulled away into the afterlife along with them.
But they can fuse together, making me believe that it would be possible for Kami and Piccolo's bond to be severed (since it is somewhat in Kami's power).
If the Dragonballs can meddle with death and the afterlife, they could meddle with souls too, I'm sure.

I believe that the reason to why they didn't use the Dragonballs was because of:

1) They had control over each other, being each other's opposite
2) For Kami, he knew of that there may have came a day to where fusion is needed, and it seems as if being half of one soul fusing is more powerful than two different souls

User avatar
Gohaz
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:38 am
Location: United States

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Gohaz » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:25 pm

That makes no sense, even if they split into 2 different beings with 2 different souls using the dragon balls, they would still be able to fuse as Namekians, they have the same parent
"Hahaaaaaa, eat my dust, Piccolo!"
- Goku, Fast but not so Furious.

Deity
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Deity » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:04 pm

I think Shenlong couldn't do that for the same reason he can't defeat the Saiyans or return the Androids back to human, that is he can't do anything that excedes his creator's strength. Even though I find this statement a bit ambiguous, it basically means he can't "defeat" any being stronger that his creator, and even though separating Kami and Piccolo would not be defeating it would be "powering down" this being (or in a way, it would be defeating) and Piccolo+Kami is a being far more powerful that Shenlong's creator and thus it cannot be done.

User avatar
the_abberration
Regular
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:22 pm
Location: Stuck On Earth

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by the_abberration » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:05 pm

I don't think the dragon balls could be used to severe their bond. I see their existence in a way similar to Kirk's, in The Enemy Within. Except while they could live independently from one another, one could not survive if the other died.
1 Corinthians 13: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. Except the anime. Never the anime.

"Look. I'm not allowed to hold you, but I'm sworn to protect you"-Sergeant Hatred

The Lineup: Danger Mouse

User avatar
Godo
I Live Here
Posts: 3361
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:25 am

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Godo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:30 pm

But the son of Katatz managed to split his soul into two. Why wouldn't Kami be able to go further if he wanted?
And it's not like as if Kami can actually do all the things Shenlong does really by himself.
I believe that Shenlong could, but it wouldn't do much good.

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Bussani » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:14 pm

I feel like the bond between the two is necessary. For all we know, severing it would cause both of them to drop dead.
Gohaz wrote:That makes no sense, even if they split into 2 different beings with 2 different souls using the dragon balls, they would still be able to fuse as Namekians, they have the same parent
According to the Daizenshuu, the Namekians have to be the same type to merge with each other. Kami and Daimao were probably the same type (so long as you consider "Dragon Clansman" close enough to "Demon Clansman"). Kami and Junior were different types, but were still able to merge, perhaps due to this link between them.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

User avatar
Fin
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:12 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Fin » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:07 pm

Godo wrote:But the son of Katatz managed to split his soul into two. Why wouldn't Kami be able to go further if he wanted?
i always interpreted the soul splitting process as being dependent on the distinction between the good and evil in katatson's soul. presumably further soul splitting wouldn't be possible once a being is purely good or evil.

(otoh, if god were to lose the purity of his part of the soul, as kaio implies is what happened to the nameless namekian in the first place, perhaps he could siphon that corruption into a third being?)

Deity
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Deity » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:45 am

Godo wrote:But the son of Katatz managed to split his soul into two. Why wouldn't Kami be able to go further if he wanted?
And it's not like as if Kami can actually do all the things Shenlong does really by himself.
I believe that Shenlong could, but it wouldn't do much good.
But that's something that he did, not something that someone or something else did for him, get it ?

And Kami can't actually do all the things Shenlong does by himself. The whole "Shenlong can't do anything that exceedes the power of his creator" is something that the story gives us, and we should go by that.

And I do believe Kamiccolo (lol) could split himself in the two if he wanted, because he said he'd do it to Nail, and he united with Kami in much the same way. I just don't believe Shenlong could do it, because of that power restriction. Unless the creator of the dragon balls, let's say Dende, was stronger than Kamiccolo, then it would be possible.

User avatar
Kaboom
Moderator
Posts: 14375
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: Funky Town
Contact:

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Kaboom » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:03 pm

Deity wrote:And I do believe Kamiccolo (lol) could split himself in the two if he wanted, because he said he'd do it to Nail, and he united with Kami in much the same way.
Piccolo most likely didn't know the full details of how Namekian Assimilation works before he performed it with Nail. But if he flat-out says later that he and Kami can't ver re-split back into two separate beings, then that takes precedence and should mean he actually can't.
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised
[thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:12 pm

Deity wrote:
Godo wrote:And I do believe Kamiccolo (lol) could split himself in the two if he wanted, because he said he'd do it to Nail, and he united with Kami in much the same way. I just don't believe Shenlong could do it, because of that power restriction. Unless the creator of the dragon balls, let's say Dende, was stronger than Kamiccolo, then it would be possible.
No, if he was to split himself in 2, it would be like the original Namekian splitted into Kami and Daimao. So, Piccolo will not split into Piccolo and Kami, or into Piccolo and Nail. He would split into two new persons, a pure evil Piccolo, and a pure good Piccolo and they are gonna be like identical twins.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
Godo
I Live Here
Posts: 3361
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:25 am

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Godo » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Deity wrote: And Kami can't actually do all the things Shenlong does by himself. The whole "Shenlong can't do anything that exceedes the power of his creator" is something that the story gives us, and we should go by that.
But my point is that (mind that I have somewhat changed my mind)

a) Shenlong can't do all the things that Kami can do (Kami's godly duties as an example, and other abilities)
b) Kami can't do all the things Shenlong can do (as resurrecting people)

These two point are connected with that "Shenlong can't do anything that exceeds the power of his creator". In other words, it has to do with his creators skills in making Dragonballs.
Dende was much more skilled in making Dragonballs, being able to make it grant three wishes, all three even more capable than Porunga's wishes.

Kami's balls: One wish, can resurrect tons of people at the same time.
The Great Elder's balls: Three wishes, but limited to one person for one wish.
Dende's balls: Three wishes, and can resurrect tons of people at the same time with one wish, and the rest of the wishes can be used.

So, Dende being young and gifted, has the greatest set of balls known in the history if Dragonball.

So it has to do with skills in creating the Dragonballs in the end. And since we don't know in which was skills decide in Shenlong's actions, we don't know if Shenlong can severe the bond between Kami and Piccolo.

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:52 pm

Godo wrote:Kami's balls: One wish, can resurrect tons of people at the same time.
The Great Elder's balls: Three wishes, but limited to one person for one wish.
Dende's balls: Three wishes, and can resurrect tons of people at the same time with one wish, and the rest of the wishes can be used.

So, Dende being young and gifted, has the greatest set of balls known in the history if Dragonball.

So it has to do with skills in creating the Dragonballs in the end. And since we don't know in which was skills decide in Shenlong's actions, we don't know if Shenlong can severe the bond between Kami and Piccolo.
But you forgot those:
Moori's balls: Three wishes, and can resurrect tons of people at the same time with one wish, and the rest of the wishes can be used. Unlike Dende's balls, those can resurrect a person more than one time.
Original Namekian's balls: EVERYTHING!
So, excluding GT, Moori's balls are greater, as they also return from stones to DBs sooner(Earth DBs: 1 year > Namek DBs: 130 days).
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

Deity
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Deity » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:37 pm

Godo wrote:
Deity wrote: And Kami can't actually do all the things Shenlong does by himself. The whole "Shenlong can't do anything that exceedes the power of his creator" is something that the story gives us, and we should go by that.
But my point is that (mind that I have somewhat changed my mind)

a) Shenlong can't do all the things that Kami can do (Kami's godly duties as an example, and other abilities)
b) Kami can't do all the things Shenlong can do (as resurrecting people)

These two point are connected with that "Shenlong can't do anything that exceeds the power of his creator". In other words, it has to do with his creators skills in making Dragonballs.
Dende was much more skilled in making Dragonballs, being able to make it grant three wishes, all three even more capable than Porunga's wishes.

Kami's balls: One wish, can resurrect tons of people at the same time.
The Great Elder's balls: Three wishes, but limited to one person for one wish.
Dende's balls: Three wishes, and can resurrect tons of people at the same time with one wish, and the rest of the wishes can be used.

So, Dende being young and gifted, has the greatest set of balls known in the history if Dragonball.

So it has to do with skills in creating the Dragonballs in the end. And since we don't know in which was skills decide in Shenlong's actions, we don't know if Shenlong can severe the bond between Kami and Piccolo.
But remember that when Krillin asked Shenlong to turn the Androids back to human Shenlong said he couldn't do it because that exceeded the power of his creator, and his creator at the time was Dende.

I wasn't taking into account who the creator was, or how skilled he is in creating, however I do believe that this particular rule always applies, no matter who the creator is ;)

User avatar
Silver Sinspawn
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:19 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:12 am

Wouldn't that exceed Kami's power?
Oh, you think the Grand Tour is your ally, you merely stepped into the Grand Tour. I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn’t see the Super until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!

User avatar
Piccolo Daimao
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:23 am

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:23 pm

Godo wrote:So, Dende being young and gifted, has the greatest set of balls known in the history if Dragonball.
Giggity.

But, as someone else said, Muuri's balls are better because they can revive those who've died before more than once. Dende's can't, and also, reviving tons of people means that their three wishes are reduced to two.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

User avatar
Silver Sinspawn
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:19 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Could Shenlong sever Kami and Piccolo's bond?

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:53 pm

So it's a quality or quantity thing, revive a bunch of people who died and didn't do shit, or revive Goku and Krillin for like, the 7th time.
Oh, you think the Grand Tour is your ally, you merely stepped into the Grand Tour. I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn’t see the Super until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but blinding!

Post Reply