Potential of Future Gohan

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Fox666
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Fox666 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:15 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:We're never told anything about the lookout from the future, but I honestly think it was destroyed. I always had a feeling the Androids took out Karin in the future, so it's possible that they took out Popo while they were up there.
Supposedly it is in another dimension, so the androids shouldn't be able to destroy it.

Of course it was Goku's idea to overcome the limit of a Super Saiyan, so perhaps it just happened nobody tought it would be usefull since Gohan and Trunks have been training for years.

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Bussani » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:49 am

Fox666 wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:We're never told anything about the lookout from the future, but I honestly think it was destroyed. I always had a feeling the Androids took out Karin in the future, so it's possible that they took out Popo while they were up there.
Supposedly it is in another dimension, so the androids shouldn't be able to destroy it.
To be fair, that hasn't stopped Bulma and Buu from reaching it later in the story. Plus there would be no Kami ruling over it at the time, which may have had some sort of effect. But still, it does seems kind of odd that the androids would be able to find and destroy it...
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Re: potential of future Gohan

Post by Rostir » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:58 am

CaBrPi wrote:There's no reason he couldn't have. Aside from, you know, being dead.
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Fox666 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:00 am

Bussani wrote:To be fair, that hasn't stopped Bulma and Buu from reaching it later in the story. Plus there would be no Kami ruling over it at the time, which may have had some sort of effect. But still, it does seems kind of odd that the androids would be able to find and destroy it...
Bulma had permission from Kami-sama and Boo is a magical creature.

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Bussani » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:47 am

Fox666 wrote:Bulma had permission from Kami-sama
We're only guessing that it works that way. Not to mention that, technically, Earth didn't officially have a Kami to give permission at the time Bulma flew up there.

People have suggested before that it could be Nyoi'bo that makes the Heavenly Realm accessible by linking it with the Earth below, and this was clearly in place when Bulma made her visit. But I suppose, if that were how it worked, that Karin or Popo could have removed the stick to be on the safe side.
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Fox666 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:27 am

Actually it is Karin who gives permission, I think... but your are right, we don't know for sure.

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Senzu_Bean » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:37 am

Bussani wrote:Future Gohan seemed to claim that he wasn't even as strong as Goku had been when he died.
Chapter: TTS, P2.5
Context: Trunks commented on how Gohan’s gi made Bulma think of Goku.
Future Gohan: “I made it hoping it would make me as strong as dad was before he died… But I guess it’s not that easy.”
According to the special subtitles Gohan says "“I made it hoping it would make me strong as dad was before he died… But I guess it’s not that easy.” or something along the lines. The key difference is "make me strong as dad" not " make me as strong as dad". I guess the scene implies Gohan wants to be "strong" as Goku, not necessarily "as strong" as Goku. Since if it was Goku instead of Gohan Number 17 & 18 would have be long destroyed. :P

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:55 pm

In Brightest Day wrote:Was the fate of the Lookout ever confirmed in the future?
In Shin Budokai 2, the Heavenly Realm was there but... without Popo... :cry:
If it wasn't ever touched, then why didn't Mr. Popo just fly down and say "uh, hey. I've got this place that can give you a years training in a day. If you could hurry up and use it that'd be great. Sincerely Popo." 8)
That sounds like Abridged Mr. Popo! :twisted:
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Hitiro » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:34 pm

In Brightest Day wrote:Was the fate of the Lookout ever confirmed in the future? If it wasn't ever touched, then why didn't Mr. Popo just fly down and say "uh, hey. I've got this place that can give you a years training in a day. If you could hurry up and use it that'd be great. Sincerely Popo." 8)
How do we know Mr. Popo didn't take his own life because Kami died as a direct result of Piccolo dying again? XD

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Bussani » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:43 pm

Senzu_Bean wrote:According to the special subtitles Gohan says "“I made it hoping it would make me strong as dad was before he died… But I guess it’s not that easy.” or something along the lines. The key difference is "make me strong as dad" not " make me as strong as dad". I guess the scene implies Gohan wants to be "strong" as Goku, not necessarily "as strong" as Goku. Since if it was Goku instead of Gohan Number 17 & 18 would have be long destroyed. :P
As a native English speaker, I think "as strong as dad was" and "strong as dad was" mean exactly the same thing. Maybe if there was an extra comma, like, "trong, as dad was before he died," then the meaning might be a little different...but even that, to me, has the same sort of meaning in the end. Basically, the line you quoted from the special sounds more like a less formal/proper English version of the same thing.
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Hitiro » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:27 am

Bussani wrote:
Senzu_Bean wrote:According to the special subtitles Gohan says "“I made it hoping it would make me strong as dad was before he died… But I guess it’s not that easy.” or something along the lines. The key difference is "make me strong as dad" not " make me as strong as dad". I guess the scene implies Gohan wants to be "strong" as Goku, not necessarily "as strong" as Goku. Since if it was Goku instead of Gohan Number 17 & 18 would have be long destroyed. :P
As a native English speaker, I think "as strong as dad was" and "strong as dad was" mean exactly the same thing. Maybe if there was an extra comma, like, "trong, as dad was before he died," then the meaning might be a little different...but even that, to me, has the same sort of meaning in the end. Basically, the line you quoted from the special sounds more like a less formal/proper English version of the same thing.


I think he was implying that Gohan was expressing that he wanted to be a strong force like his father, it was always Goku who would show up and finish the battle or be the deciding point in a power struggle. Instead of him being "as strong as dad" which would imply that his powerlevel was still weaker than Goku's. I highly doubt Gohan's powerlevel was weaker than his fathers though otherwise he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did. Even if he had the same powerlevel as his Goku he would probably be rofl stomped by the androids as Goku's powerlevel at the time before he caught the heart virus would have been nothing to the androids.

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Senzu_Bean » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:49 am

Hitiro wrote:I think he was implying that Gohan was expressing that he wanted to be a strong force like his father, it was always Goku who would show up and finish the battle or be the deciding point in a power struggle. Instead of him being "as strong as dad" which would imply that his powerlevel was still weaker than Goku's.
Yep, that is what I meant. Thanks!

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Bussani » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:23 am

I know what Senzu_Bean meant, and still I don't see how removing the "as" makes it imply what he's saying. You could just as easily argue that the "as strong as dad" version also wasn't talking about literal power levels, but another sort of strength.
Hitiro wrote:I highly doubt Gohan's powerlevel was weaker than his fathers though otherwise he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did. Even if he had the same powerlevel as his Goku he would probably be rofl stomped by the androids as Goku's powerlevel at the time before he caught the heart virus would have been nothing to the androids.
He was "rofl stomped" by the androids. He only survived as long as he did because they were playing with him. #17 straight up told him that he didn't even use half of his power when they last beat him up, took his arm, and left him thinking he was couldn't survive. Sure, he powered up since then, but by how much? Enough to have a chance against the not-even-half #17 who beat him? That could still be pretty low for all we know. Not to mention that Trunks thinks he's surpassed Gohan after that, with Bulma telling him that she doesn't think he's that much more amazing than Gohan was when he died; if this Trunks is then around or below the level of Goku after his return from Yardrat, then I think that's even more indication that Future Gohan can't have been too much to speak of.
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:01 pm

Hitiro wrote:How do we know Mr. Popo didn't take his own life because Kami died as a direct result of Piccolo dying again? XD
Because that would be stupid. Mr. Popo has a responsibility as assistant to the God of Earth; he wouldn't just abandon that holy duty, commit suicide and possibly face the consequences in the afterlife. And, obviously, gods had died before, yet he presumably didn't kill himself all of those times.
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by vegetaslegacy15 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:03 pm

Maybe Gohan just forgot about the lookout and Popo was too scared to come down and tell Gohan about the ROSaT out of fear of dying.

But the way I think of it if Gohan was as strong as Goku(Yardrat) then he would have been beaten a lot worse than he was. Yeah the Androids were screwing around with him but he was fighting pretty evenly with 17 until 18 intervened. I doubt that half of number 17's power is equal to Goku post yardrat.
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Rocketman » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:41 pm

vegetaslegacy15 wrote:Yeah the Androids were screwing around with him but he was fighting pretty evenly with 17 until 18 intervened.
That's from the special. Manga 17 kills Gohan singlehandedly.

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Bussani » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:44 pm

vegetaslegacy15 wrote:But the way I think of it if Gohan was as strong as Goku(Yardrat) then he would have been beaten a lot worse than he was. Yeah the Androids were screwing around with him but he was fighting pretty evenly with 17 until 18 intervened. I doubt that half of number 17's power is equal to Goku post yardrat.
Wouldn't that mean that Trunks, who apparently surpassed Gohan, was also a lot stronger than Goku when they met? Their meeting didn't seem to imply that at all.
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Hitiro » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:50 am

Bussani wrote:
vegetaslegacy15 wrote:But the way I think of it if Gohan was as strong as Goku(Yardrat) then he would have been beaten a lot worse than he was. Yeah the Androids were screwing around with him but he was fighting pretty evenly with 17 until 18 intervened. I doubt that half of number 17's power is equal to Goku post yardrat.
Wouldn't that mean that Trunks, who apparently surpassed Gohan, was also a lot stronger than Goku when they met? Their meeting didn't seem to imply that at all.
When is it stated that Trunks is more powerful than Future Gohan? If you look at Trunks fighting #17 after Vegeta took a pounding against #18 then it is clear that if he was stronger than Future Gohan at this point he would of at least put up a better fight because he'd be stronger than half of #17's actual strength. And if you look at the fact that they had all been training for 3 years to prepare for the fight against the androids then Future Gohan must atleast be much stronger than Yardrat Goku. The reason for this is Vegeta couldn't have been that far from Goku's strength after the 3 years of training and he was completely owned by #18, she clearly wasn't using any strength at all so I doubt she would need that much more to beat Goku if he didn't have the heart virus at the time. #18 is also weaker than #17 so I think 50% of #17 is probably 75% of #18's. You have to take into account that Gohan was also fighting with one arm, even though #17 was fighting with half his strength the last time a person with one arm is at a much greater disadvantage against someone of an equal power however you look at it.

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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Bussani » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:15 am

Hitiro wrote:When is it stated that Trunks is more powerful than Future Gohan?
It seemed implied in The Trunks Story.
Chapter: TTS, P14.4, P15.1-2
Trunks: “…I think I’m strong enough to beat the Androids now. We don’t have to go study them in the past!”
Future Bulma: “You’re too naïve. It’s true that you’ve gotten astoundingly strong, but have you forgotten how Gohan was killed 3 years ago? I don’t think you’re that amazingly different than Gohan back then…”
Trunks: “Mother, quite frankly this time I’ve got confidence !

If you look at Trunks fighting #17 after Vegeta took a pounding against #18 then it is clear that if he was stronger than Future Gohan at this point he would of at least put up a better fight because he'd be stronger than half of #17's actual strength.

You're assuming that a) Gohan reached half of #17's strength and b) being stronger than that would mean he had a chance.

And if you look at the fact that they had all been training for 3 years to prepare for the fight against the androids then Future Gohan must atleast be much stronger than Yardrat Goku. The reason for this is Vegeta couldn't have been that far from Goku's strength after the 3 years of training and he was completely owned by #18, she clearly wasn't using any strength at all so I doubt she would need that much more to beat Goku if he didn't have the heart virus at the time.

Why can't Future Gohan be below Goku upon his return from Yardrat, who's below Goku and Vegeta after the training, who in turn are below #17 and #18?

This is assuming, of course, that Trunks was wrong about the androids in the main timeline being stronger than those from his timeline:

Chapter: 355 (DBZ 161), P8.5
Trunks: “They’re also somewhat different from the androids I know…They weren’t as outrageously strong as this…Even I could fight them fairly well…”

If he was wrong, then obviously his androids had been holding back and he was still a lot weaker than him. If he wasn't wrong, then all of the above is pointless and the main timeline androids' strengths are anyone's guess.

#18 is also weaker than #17 so I think 50% of #17 is probably 75% of #18's.

I've never thought the difference between them was as dramatic as that, personally.

You have to take into account that Gohan was also fighting with one arm, even though #17 was fighting with half his strength the last time a person with one arm is at a much greater disadvantage against someone of an equal power however you look at it.

Gohan had his arm when he fought the less-than-half #17. He lost it in that fight. That's how much better less-than-half #17 was than Gohan.
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Re: Potential of Future Gohan

Post by Fox666 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:52 am

Bussani wrote:
#18 is also weaker than #17 so I think 50% of #17 is probably 75% of #18's.
I've never thought the difference between them was as dramatic as that, personally.
The two are always mentioned as a couple, so the difference beetween them is probably trivial. For example:

Cell: “This fierce ki belongs to Piccolo, now that he’s merged with God...! And the only opponent who he’d fight with this much power is…No.17 and No.18!
Bussani wrote:Why can't Future Gohan be below Goku upon his return from Yardrat, who's below Goku and Vegeta after the training, who in turn are below #17 and #18?
Considering how close Vegeta's strength was to No.18, it's not far-fetched to say he probably would be able to defeat the artificial humans from the future.
Bussani wrote:If he was wrong, then obviously his androids had been holding back and he was still a lot weaker than him. If he wasn't wrong, then all of the above is pointless and the main timeline androids' strengths are anyone's guess.
The Daizenshuu profiles also mention they are "somewhat inferior in power" in the future.

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