Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

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Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by PhoenixEX » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:19 pm

The Legendary Super Saiyan in the myths that was talked about in the DBZ anime. Is it Bardock?
Chilled, before he died told his henchmen to warm those who would come after him, could this story have been passed down generation to generation until finally Frieza came to know about it? Would this consider 'Episode of Bardock' canon?
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Goten Forever » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:25 pm

PhoenixEX wrote:The Legendary Super Saiyan in the myths that was talked about in the DBZ anime. Is it Bardock?
Chilled, before he died told his henchmen to warm those who would come after him, could this story have been passed down generation to generation until finally Freeza came to know about it? Would this consider 'Episode of Bardock' canon?
Bardock is NOT the Legendary Super Saiyan.
Who is Chilled? Not Coola?

Episode of Bardock IS canon but it is established that Son Goku was the Legendary Super Saiyan. Freeza feared that the Saiyans were becoming too strong and closer to the strengths of Super Saiyans but none were more than about PL 30,000.
Bardock was not a Super Saiyan - his strength was strong for his class and on the level of the general elite soldier but not much higher.
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:36 pm

It's...

Maybe...

He's...

Gah...*bangs head on desk*

As said a multitude of times before; "Dragon Ball canon is up to the individual fan to decide because no one officially related to the franchise has said anything on the matter". Does each adaptation of Episode of Bardock fit in with its corresponding media? Yes, they easily share continuities with a few minor problems/plotholes, but even the original manga has a few of those, so whatever. The manga version can fit with the manga, and the anime version can fit with the anime. As for if you want them to be canon due to the plot of making Bardock the Super Saiyan of legend, read this and decide for yourself: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... 3&p=504901
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Michsi » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:45 pm

Yeah , personally I don't think so.

This canon business is pretty tricky . I mean I believe DBO, that is often praised as the closest to a genuine continuation of DB, sorta contradicts the recent special.

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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:55 pm

Michsi wrote:Yeah , personally I don't think so.

This canon business is pretty tricky . I mean I believe DBO, that is often praised as the closest to a genuine continuation of DB, sorta contradicts the recent special.
Time travel issues.

Generally speaking, if Miira traveled back in time to save DBO's Bardock, then that Bardock shouldn't be the one from the main timeline.
Also a point, if Bardock was sent back in time after Vegeta exploded, then he should have been blasted into a different timeline as well.
Metaphorically speaking, Bardock could have been blasted to the divergence to the "right", and Miira could have traveled to the one on the "left".

So, Bardock is probably A Super Saiyan of legend, but not the main timeline's Super Saiyan of legend.
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by sanorin » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:56 pm

Goten Forever wrote:
PhoenixEX wrote:The Legendary Super Saiyan in the myths that was talked about in the DBZ anime. Is it Bardock?
Chilled, before he died told his henchmen to warm those who would come after him, could this story have been passed down generation to generation until finally Freeza came to know about it? Would this consider 'Episode of Bardock' canon?
Bardock is NOT the Legendary Super Saiyan.
Who is Chilled? Not Coola?

Episode of Bardock IS canon but it is established that Son Goku was the Legendary Super Saiyan. Freeza feared that the Saiyans were becoming too strong and closer to the strengths of Super Saiyans but none were more than about PL 30,000.
Bardock was not a Super Saiyan - his strength was strong for his class and on the level of the general elite soldier but not much higher.
Have you not watched Episode of Bardock? Not the TV special where we first see Bardock. The new one when he travels to the past, fights Chilled and becomes a Super Saiyan.

In reply to the original question, he could be the first Super Saiyan in history, thus the Legendary Super Saiyan. But this special leaves more questions than answers, as we don't know if he eventually met other Saiyans and reproduced (he could be his own ancestor!!) or died alone, or where the original Saiyans were. Also, Chilled says "Be careful with the Saiyans that turn golden", he doesn't say "Super Saiyan". But well, yeah, he could be.

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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Michsi » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:13 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Michsi wrote:Yeah , personally I don't think so.

This canon business is pretty tricky . I mean I believe DBO, that is often praised as the closest to a genuine continuation of DB, sorta contradicts the recent special.
Time travel issues.

Generally speaking, if Miira traveled back in time to save DBO's Bardock, then that Bardock shouldn't be the one from the main timeline.
Also a point, if Bardock was sent back in time after Vegeta exploded, then he should have been blasted into a different timeline as well.
Metaphorically speaking, Bardock could have been blasted to the divergence to the "right", and Miira could have traveled to the one on the "left".

So, Bardock is probably A Super Saiyan of legend, but not the main timeline's Super Saiyan of legend.
That's one possible explanation if one wants to find a way to fit them both in one story. Personally, I think these two stories just ignore eachother. I treat he special like a what if story.

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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Goten Forever » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:17 pm

sanorin wrote:
Goten Forever wrote:
PhoenixEX wrote:The Legendary Super Saiyan in the myths that was talked about in the DBZ anime. Is it Bardock?
Chilled, before he died told his henchmen to warm those who would come after him, could this story have been passed down generation to generation until finally Freeza came to know about it? Would this consider 'Episode of Bardock' canon?
Bardock is NOT the Legendary Super Saiyan.
Who is Chilled? Not Coola?

Episode of Bardock IS canon but it is established that Son Goku was the Legendary Super Saiyan. Freeza feared that the Saiyans were becoming too strong and closer to the strengths of Super Saiyans but none were more than about PL 30,000.
Bardock was not a Super Saiyan - his strength was strong for his class and on the level of the general elite soldier but not much higher.
Have you not watched Episode of Bardock? Not the TV special where we first see Bardock. The new one when he travels to the past, fights Chilled and becomes a Super Saiyan.

In reply to the original question, he could be the first Super Saiyan in history, thus the Legendary Super Saiyan. But this special leaves more questions than answers, as we don't know if he eventually met other Saiyans and reproduced (he could be his own ancestor!!) or died alone, or where the original Saiyans were. Also, Chilled says "Be careful with the Saiyans that turn golden", he doesn't say "Super Saiyan". But well, yeah, he could be.
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Fox666 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:41 pm

It's everywhere, manga sites, Youtube...

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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Kroni_Hunter » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:04 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Michsi wrote:Yeah , personally I don't think so.

This canon business is pretty tricky . I mean I believe DBO, that is often praised as the closest to a genuine continuation of DB, sorta contradicts the recent special.
Time travel issues.

Generally speaking, if Miira traveled back in time to save DBO's Bardock, then that Bardock shouldn't be the one from the main timeline.
Also a point, if Bardock was sent back in time after Vegeta exploded, then he should have been blasted into a different timeline as well.
Metaphorically speaking, Bardock could have been blasted to the divergence to the "right", and Miira could have traveled to the one on the "left".

So, Bardock is probably A Super Saiyan of legend, but not the main timeline's Super Saiyan of legend.
Don't forget, we have at least 4 Bardocks that exist through each of the timelines. The Bardock of the main series timeline dies in the planet explosion, but any of the other three bardocks could have been the one to travel to the past, creating the main series legend and leaving two others for Miira.
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Monkey D Goku » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:22 am

I'm still kinda wondering how in the world did Bardock get sent back in time ? Lol did Aku come out of nowhere a tear open a portal into the past and fling him there lol Samurai Jack reference .
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:02 am

Kroni_Hunter wrote:Don't forget, we have at least 4 Bardocks that exist through each of the timelines. The Bardock of the main series timeline dies in the planet explosion, but any of the other three bardocks could have been the one to travel to the past, creating the main series legend and leaving two others for Miira.
I'm not forgetting anything. My interpretation of DB time travel doesn't allow for any other Bardocks not from his timeline to be relevant to the discussion because Miira can't get to them. He would have to cause new divergences to the timeline in order grab a "new" Bardock...in the event that something happened to the old one on his first attempt.

The last part is up to personal canon though. Toriyama included Bardock in the manga as depicted in the TV Special, so the events took place. But, since Toriyama didn't show the specifics, besides two scenes, we don't have solid confirmation of Bardock's death. The manga takes precedence over the anime for me, and its general vagueness on this allows the ending of the TV Special is to be spliced together with the beginning of Episode of Bardock with only a few problems, none worse than those from manga itself. So main timeline Bardock survived Freeza's blast and presumably died sometime in the past, probably by committing suicide because he was surrounded by the non-Namekian, purple slug-people.
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Godo » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:31 pm

Maybe I have been gone too long, but when did Bardock go back in time? And who are Aku and Miira? Are you speaking about some special, or some video game storyline? Maybe DBO?

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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by NANLIT » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:37 pm

Godo wrote:Maybe I have been gone too long, but when did Bardock go back in time? And who are Aku and Miira? Are you speaking about some special, or some video game storyline? Maybe DBO?
Bardock went back in time in "Episode of Bardock", which is a 3 shot series done by Ooishi Naho (she also helped with the special in which Tarble, Abo, and Cado were introduced) and was later adapted in an anime special. In it, Bardock traveled back in time when Planet Vegeta was destroyed and turned into a SSJ while battling Freeza's ancestor (and thinking it was Freeza while fghting him).

Miira is from DBO who is a time traveler and who "saved" Bardock from death and made him a slave by that device he uses to control people.

Aku is from the show Samurai Jack who throws Jack into the future so he can conquer the world without Jack interfering.

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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Godo » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:52 pm

NANLIT wrote:
Godo wrote:Maybe I have been gone too long, but when did Bardock go back in time? And who are Aku and Miira? Are you speaking about some special, or some video game storyline? Maybe DBO?
Bardock went back in time in "Episode of Bardock", which is a 3 shot series done by Ooishi Naho (she also helped with the special in which Tarble, Abo, and Cado were introduced) and was later adapted in an anime special. In it, Bardock traveled back in time when Planet Vegeta was destroyed and turned into a SSJ while battling Freeza's ancestor (and thinking it was Freeza while fghting him).

Miira is from DBO who is a time traveler and who "saved" Bardock from death and made him a slave by that device he uses to control people.

Aku is from the show Samurai Jack who throws Jack into the future so he can conquer the world without Jack interfering.
Ok, thanks. Gotta check that out, then. :D

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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Kroni_Hunter » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:10 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Kroni_Hunter wrote:Don't forget, we have at least 4 Bardocks that exist through each of the timelines. The Bardock of the main series timeline dies in the planet explosion, but any of the other three bardocks could have been the one to travel to the past, creating the main series legend and leaving two others for Miira.
I'm not forgetting anything. My interpretation of DB time travel doesn't allow for any other Bardocks not from his timeline to be relevant to the discussion because Miira can't get to them. He would have to cause new divergences to the timeline in order grab a "new" Bardock...in the event that something happened to the old one on his first attempt.

The last part is up to personal canon though. Toriyama included Bardock in the manga as depicted in the TV Special, so the events took place. But, since Toriyama didn't show the specifics, besides two scenes, we don't have solid confirmation of Bardock's death. The manga takes precedence over the anime for me, and its general vagueness on this allows the ending of the TV Special is to be spliced together with the beginning of Episode of Bardock with only a few problems, none worse than those from manga itself. So main timeline Bardock survived Freeza's blast and presumably died sometime in the past, probably by committing suicide because he was surrounded by the non-Namekian, purple slug-people.
You're right, don't know how that slipped my mind. I still don't want to dismiss the possibility of connecting SSJ Bardock to the main series, just because I think it's a great tie in. Maybe the Miira that "drops" Bardock comes from an earlier timeline than the main series Miira who saves Bardock. If that was the case, the "past" that Bardock goes to could still conceivably be the past of timeline 1, since we don't really know how many timelines there are anyway. But now i'm just stacking theories onto theories. I'm just trying to say there is an argument that exists to support it.
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:02 am

I don't see the Bardock manga canon since it's most likely not canon and could take place in an alternate time line, much like Mirai Trunks. Also it look like that Toriyama had nothing to do with it as well.
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by TheNamekGio » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:35 am

It is one of those things you have to say to youself that you agree with this story or not. I personally remember having the movie 10 fansub back in high school, so to me Broly will always in my mind be the LSSJ. :mrgreen:
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Silver Sinspawn » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:32 am

I like to think that he is. Who's to say he isn't? What do we know about The Original Legendary Super Saiyan?
He blew up his own planet, and was really strong for his own time?
Sounds like that could be Bardock.
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Re: Is Bardock the Legendary Super Saiyan?

Post by Fox666 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:30 am

Silver Sinspawn wrote:He blew up his own planet
That part of the history is not in the japanese version. It was added in the dub apparently because of that scene of an Oozaru-esque figure destroying some planet.
Hellspawn28 wrote:Also it look like that Toriyama had nothing to do with it as well.
Not exactly, apparently it was him who designed Chilled.

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