Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

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Piccolo Daimao
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Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:22 am

I've been meaning to make a thread about this for a while, but now I've finally remembered to do so. Reading through the manga, I've seen that Tenshinhan had planned to use his Kikohou against Nappa twice before actually performing it. Right after Nappa punches off Tenshinhan's arm and draws his fist back for another blow, Tenshinhan avoids it by jumping up into the air and drawing his hand back for an attack, which strongly resembles his gesture for his Kikouhou.

And then, after Chaozu dies and Nappa flies at Tenshinhan, he draws his hand back and is about to bring it up to fire when Piccolo suddenly appears and strikes at Nappa. Just like the first attempt, it looks just like his gesture for the Kikouhou. If anyone could provide panels of these scenes, that would be great.

What's my point? I think that Tenshinhan had planned to sacrifice himself by defeating Nappa with the Kikouhou even before Chaozu's death, only that it somewhat meant more to him afterwards.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by hleV » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:25 am

ImageImage

So yeah, basically he got his death postponed twice.

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Fox666 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:28 am

Considering the circunstances, it seems only natural that he would throw a Kikoho at Nappa. However he may not planned to use so much power that it would kill himself.

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:58 am

Fox666 wrote:Considering the circunstances, it seems only natural that he would throw a Kikoho at Nappa. However he may not planned to use so much power that it would kill himself.
But he'd know that it would require all his power to defeat Nappa. If he'd used any less, then it could fail and he'd be even weaker than before.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Godo » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:30 pm

I love that even if Tenshinhan has closed his eyes in the first panel, his third eye is looking at Nappa. I had never thought of checking up on where Tenshinhan's third eye is during fights.

I think that he in all instances would use a Kikoho, but not at full power. He wouldn't want to die and leave Chao-zu alone at the battlefield. When Chao-zu died, though, he had nothing to lose and could use all his power.

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Fox666 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:43 pm

Wow good catch!

Tenshinhan pain expression with one of the eyes open would be the equivalent to this:
Image

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:20 pm

Godo wrote:I love that even if Tenshinhan has closed his eyes in the first panel, his third eye is looking at Nappa. I had never thought of checking up on where Tenshinhan's third eye is during fights.

I think that he in all instances would use a Kikoho, but not at full power. He wouldn't want to die and leave Chao-zu alone at the battlefield. When Chao-zu died, though, he had nothing to lose and could use all his power.
Yeah, it's a nice little touch from Toriyama.

But what I'm saying is that I think he knew that it'd require no less than his full power to defeat Nappa, and he'd want to protect Chaozu and his friends from dying, even if it meant he had to sacrifice himself to do so. That's what Chaozu did in the first place. He could still be revived with the DBs anyway.

Of course, then they'd have to deal with Vegeta, but perhaps Tenshinhan believed that Gokuu would get there in time and defeat him. Either way, I don't see how he couldn't die from using a Kikohou with only one arm, since he was severely injured and even if he didn't die, he probably would eventually from his wounds and wouldn't be able to hold out long enough for Vegeta to be defeated somehow; again, if Gokuu got there in time, since he was practically their only hope. Even Piccolo told the Saiyans that they shouldn't underestimate Gokuu and that he'd like to see the look on Vegeta's face when Gokuu arrives.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by FindKenshi » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:29 pm

The page 123 example above I'd agree, he was about to fire Kikoho and had to stop suddenly because Piccolo got in his line of fire.

The page 108 example above, though, I guess his hand does sorta look like he maybe about to attack, but it also just looks like he's drawing away from Nappa in pain-fueled panicked hurry.
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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by hleV » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:34 pm

FindKenshi wrote:The page 123 example above I'd agree, he was about to fire Kikoho and had to stop suddenly because Piccolo got in his line of fire.

The page 108 example above, though, I guess his hand does sorta look like he maybe about to attack, but it also just looks like he's drawing away from Nappa in pain-fueled panicked hurry.
Page 122:

Image

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:38 pm

FindKenshi wrote:The page 108 example above, though, I guess his hand does sorta look like he maybe about to attack, but it also just looks like he's drawing away from Nappa in pain-fueled panicked hurry.
I don't know how it can be visually percieved as anything other than him preparing for an attack. And I think, in Viz, he says something like, "You bastard!", which doesn't really imply panic.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Godo » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:42 pm

And as in hleV's post, its clear by Tenshinhan's howling that he is about to attack.

But one thing I believe is that neither of the fighters from Earth had a clear knowledge about both the full power of Nappa and his abilities.
I mean, if they knew, they wouldn't have tried all those kamikaze attacks.
If Tenshinhan knew how strong Nappa was, he wouldn't even try to attack him at that moment, since that would be a waste.
So whether he would have used his full power on all occasions is not clear. But I think it's pretty clear that it was Chao-zu's death that made him to even risk his own life.
If Chao-zu hadn't died, he may have left a tiny amount to keep him alive to protect Chao-zu.

I just have to add that the fight against Nappa is one of my favorites since it looks to dynamic compared to the rest of the fights in Dragonball.

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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:08 pm

This fight really is Toriyama at his best.
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Re: Tenshinhan's Kikouhou against Nappa

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:28 pm

Godo wrote:And as in hleV's post, its clear by Tenshinhan's howling that he is about to attack.

But one thing I believe is that neither of the fighters from Earth had a clear knowledge about both the full power of Nappa and his abilities.
I mean, if they knew, they wouldn't have tried all those kamikaze attacks.
If Tenshinhan knew how strong Nappa was, he wouldn't even try to attack him at that moment, since that would be a waste.
So whether he would have used his full power on all occasions is not clear. But I think it's pretty clear that it was Chao-zu's death that made him to even risk his own life.
If Chao-zu hadn't died, he may have left a tiny amount to keep him alive to protect Chao-zu.
Yeah, even Piccolo at first couldn't deduce who was the stronger of the two until this:
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 219 (DBZ 25), P12.5
Context: after Vegeta orders Nappa to stop and Nappa instantly complies
Piccolo: “The way the big one cowered…that must mean that the little one is even more powerful. It’s hopeless!”
But whether or not they knew about Nappa's full power, I still think they would've given it their all in an effort to defeat him. Otherwise, they'd get killed without the chance to use their last resorts.

I think, like Chaozu, Tenshinhan would've sacrificed his life to defeat Nappa with the Kikouhou, regardless of Chaozu's death. Chaozu's protection would've been the most important thing to him, so why wouldn't he have died to save him? Besides, they could still revive him with the DBs.
Godo wrote:I just have to add that the fight against Nappa is one of my favorites since it looks to dynamic compared to the rest of the fights in Dragonball.
Same here. It felt so much more hopeless and desperate than a lot of the other fights, with major characters that we'd formed attachments to dying left and right, all the survivors looking completely wrecked by the end, and the seemingly indestructible Vegeta just not dying, whether it be from Gokuu's Kaiouken x4 Kamehameha, the Genki-Dama or Oozaru Gohan crushing him.

I think the only battles that top this are some of the Tenkaichi Budoukai fights and Gokuu vs. Piccolo Daimaou.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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