How artificial are the artificial humans?

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How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Jord » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:28 pm

I always had some trouble understanding what the AH are. IIRC they are humans that got 'artificial' (robot) upgrades that makes them so strong. Has it ever been stated what kind of upgrades 17 and 18 got? Also, have their true (or former) been revealed at some point in one of the DBZ books?
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Mystic Gohan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:54 pm

They are real enough that they can give birth to children.

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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by shonenhikada » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:56 pm

Would anyone like a detail internal model of Android 18. I have pics.

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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Mystic Gohan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:02 pm

I would love one.

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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Cipher » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:14 pm

shonenhikada wrote:Would anyone like a detail internal model of Android 18. I have pics.
This is the dirtiest thing I've read all day.

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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:40 pm

Guides say that other than the bombs implanted in them, their upgrades are all organic, which is why Cell is able to integrate with them. I can't imagine the changes being too extensive, seeing how they continue to look and mostly function just like normal humans. We know for certain that they were made more durable and were implanted with an infinite energy reactor for power and stamina. What exactly these changes would actually entail, we have no idea...
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Herms » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:54 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Guides say that other than the bombs implanted in them, their upgrades are all organic, which is why Cell is able to integrate with them.
Which is taken pretty much straight from what Bulma says about 17+18 in chapter...ugh, whenever Kuririn gives her the blueprints.

16+19 are said to be fully mechanical, made "from nothing". 20 is called a "human plus machines" in chapter 367's title page. 8 is said to be human-based in the daizenshuu, like 17+18, but nothing more specific is given.
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:17 pm

Herms wrote:8 is said to be human-based in the daizenshuu, like 17+18, but nothing more specific is given.
I've seen some people dispute this before, but keep in mind that we do see him eating, drinking coffee and sleeping, in the actual manga.
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:45 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:I've seen some people dispute this before, but keep in mind that we do see him eating, drinking coffee and sleeping, in the actual manga.
The people debating it are probably using the Path to Power as evidence, as he does seem to be fully mechanical in that specific instance, what with all the parts falling out of him while he attack's Black's battle suit.
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Bussani » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:29 pm

Herms wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Guides say that other than the bombs implanted in them, their upgrades are all organic, which is why Cell is able to integrate with them.
Which is taken pretty much straight from what Bulma says about 17+18 in chapter...ugh, whenever Kuririn gives her the blueprints.
In the Viz translation, Bulma describes them as: "based on human bodies...enhanced almost entirely with bio-organic components..." You wouldn't happen to know how it's worded in Japanese, would you? It's chapter 365, but I'm not sure if you have the manga handy, so:

"人間をベースにして... ほとんど有機質だけで改造してあるわ..."

From what I can tell, it says more or less the same thing: "based on humans, remodelled with organic parts." I'm not sure why Viz went with "bio-organic".
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Rocketman » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:05 pm

Bio-organic, you know. Made of watery water and carbony carbon.

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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:36 am

shonenhikada wrote:Would anyone like a detail internal model of Android 18. I have pics.
I'd take some. :wink:
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:20 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
Herms wrote:8 is said to be human-based in the daizenshuu, like 17+18, but nothing more specific is given.
I've seen some people dispute this before, but keep in mind that we do see him eating, drinking coffee and sleeping, in the actual manga.
Not to mention that he seems to be based on Frankenstein's monster.

I also want to mention that #20 seems to be the most mechanical of the cyborgs, which may be because he's an "old" (as #18 refers to it as) energy absorption model like #19. When Gohan knocks off his hat, you can see his brain inside that head pod or whatever, which is similar to #19's. And when Piccolo tears off his arm, you can see mechanical parts falling out of it. And when #17 crushes his (still talking) head, mechanical parts fall out (e.g. the eye), similar to when Cell crushed #16's head, but with some brain too. So, in conclusion, it seems like the only thing of #20's that remained organic was his brain. Everything else was converted to a mechanical body or something.

Oh, and when #17 or #18 mentions that #20 had become an Android, #20 replies, "Yes, I wanted to become immortal, like you". So I guess that means that, despite still being mostly organic, #17 and #18 can't die of old age. Nor do they seem to age, judging by #18's appearance in the Boo arc and GT. That might have something to do with their infinite energy reactor.

Talking of which, I don't believe it was ever confirmed what #13, #14 and #15 were. I think that we see #15 has the same type of "mechanical brain" that #19 does under his hat, and after Trunks destroys #14, his mechanical-looking body crashes down in a heap. But they don't have the energy-absorbing nodes on their palms like #19 and #20, nor do they seem nearly as strong as #17 and #18 (with the exception of, maybe, #13, who looked to be fighting evenly with SS Gokuu in the brief part of the fight we saw before Piccolo interrupted, and probably becomes about as strong as #16 once he absorbs #14 and #15's components).

Maybe they're a completely new type by themselves (in the manga, it specifically mentions #13, #14 and #15 as being the most completed failures or something), or they're like #8 (#15 seems to drink something out of his flask, and #8 drank some coffee, although with #15, it could be some other product that fuels him, rather than actual alcohol or whatever - I think Kaboom made what may or may not be a joke post comparing him to Bender from Futarama).
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Kaboom » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:05 pm

The fanon-generating depths of my brain are whispering secrets to me...

... They reveal to me that 13, 14, and 15 were early prototypes of the infinite energy reactor models. But Gero wasn't getting as large a power output as he wanted from them, so he tweaked them all to be able to integrate the others' reactors in order to add their power together. So if 13 had been defeated we may have seen a "Super" 14 or 15 instead.

But Gero abandoned these once he figured out how to get more power into an infinite energy reactor. But he ended up granting 16 TOO much power as a result, so he made sure he was able to adjust the power of 17 and 18 when he created them.

Even then, the over-abundance of power was still creating problems with their personality programming. So with 19 and himself, he went back and perfected the energy-absorption method he'd previously fiddled with for Androids 9 through 12.
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Kaboom wrote:The fanon-generating depths of my brain are whispering secrets to me...

... They reveal to me that 13, 14, and 15 were early prototypes of the infinite energy reactor models. But Gero wasn't getting as large a power output as he wanted from them, so he tweaked them all to be able to integrate the others' reactors in order to add their power together. So if 13 had been defeated we may have seen a "Super" 14 or 15 instead.

But Gero abandoned these once he figured out how to get more power into an infinite energy reactor. But he ended up granting 16 TOO much power as a result, so he made sure he was able to adjust the power of 17 and 18 when he created them.

Even then, the over-abundance of power was still creating problems with their personality programming. So with 19 and himself, he went back and perfected the energy-absorption method he'd previously fiddled with for Androids 9 through 12.
In Ginyuu's voice, "I'm taking that theory! :twisted: "

Also, do you think that they're androids or cyborgs (as in, like #16 and #19, or #17 and #18)? Well (kind of answering my own question here), the Daizenshuu says this:
"Who are the artificial humans?!
The artificial humans are fighting soldiers made by the Red Ribbon Army. No. 1-7 and 9-12 were problem-ridden failures. No. 8 (Hacchan) had a gentle personality and was unfit to be a soldier. No. 13-15 were developed by Doctor Gero's computer, and seem to be completely artificial systems. No. 17 and No. 18 were human-based, while No. 16 and No. 19 were completely artificial robot-types. No. 20 was their developer Doctor Gero, who restructured himself. And then Cell was manufactured by the computer through bio-technology. Furthermore, No. 9 and onwards were made for the purpose of eliminating Goku, who had destroyed the Red Ribbon Army."
And what about #15's habit of drinking alcohol? Could this be a serious answer (I know it's probably a joke, but worth addressing anyway)?
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Kaboom » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:50 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:In Ginyuu's voice, "I'm taking that theory! :twisted: "

Also, do you think that they're androids or cyborgs (as in, like #16 and #19, or #17 and #18)? Well (kind of answering my own question here), the Daizenshuu says this:
"Who are the artificial humans?!
<ssssssssnip>
Well, if the guidebook says they're all fully-artificial, and nothing else seems to contradict it, then... good enough for me, I guess? I never really assumed otherwise.

... Where are you getting these Daizenshuu excerpts if Kanzentai's kaput?
Piccolo Daimao wrote:And what about #15's habit of drinking alcohol? Could this be a serious answer (I know it's probably a joke, but worth addressing anyway)?
Yeah, I was 99% joking. But who knows? If these guys were highly experimental models, then anything's possible...? I'm actually kind of surprised one of the guidebooks hasn't already given a half-joking, Oda-esque reason for why 15 drinks.
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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:23 pm

Kaboom wrote:Well, if the guidebook says they're all fully-artificial, and nothing else seems to contradict it, then... good enough for me, I guess? I never really assumed otherwise.

... Where are you getting these Daizenshuu excerpts if Kanzentai's kaput?
I copied it from an old thread.
Kaboom wrote:Yeah, I was 99% joking. But who knows? If these guys were highly experimental models, then anything's possible...? I'm actually kind of surprised one of the guidebooks hasn't already given a half-joking, Oda-esque reason for why 15 drinks.
Yeah, same here. Maybe it's just a gag, or #15's body can take it without damaging his body or anything. I guess #15's part of personality making him like alcohol is comparable to #16's part of personality making him be happy caring for nature, in ways that doesn't have anything to do with mechanics. That may be just what happens when you create sentient beings like that.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: How artificial are the artificial humans?

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:29 pm

I don't know if this can help, but at least it will give you the references to check out the information you need.

FRENCH TANKOBON N°31 - CHAPTER 365 "SON GOKU WAKES UP"

Bulma (checking out 17's files): "He built his cyborg from a human... He kept almost all of his organic matter... which makes it possible to absorb his cells... We'll have to check out everything in details, but I think the mechanical parts in his composition must have a weakness..."

FRENCH TANKOBON N°36 - CHAPTER 431 "QUALIFICATION"

Son Goku: "How did you manage to have a baby with a robot?"

Krilin: "She's not a robot... She's a human that's been tweaked a bit, that's all."

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