How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

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Ringworm128
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How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Ringworm128 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:28 am

Piccolo was able to wipe out a Saibaiman with one beam and his BP was under 2000. And Piccolo's Makankosapo was only a few thousand points above Raditz level yet Raditz himself said he would have been done in if it had hit him. Heck, Piccolo's entire arm was blown off by Raditz who was less then 1000 points above Piccolo. So how come Vegeta with a BP of 18000 was able to survive being hit directly by a beam that was thousands of points above his max power?
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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Jackal puFF » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:57 am

Those kamehameha's always seem to push the enemy back. It probably would have killed Vegeta if he didn't quickly roll to the side or whatever.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Fox666 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:27 am

Vegeta is very durable. That has been mentioned several times by Zarbon and others.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by hleV » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:16 am

I assume that the Kamehameha still wasn't strong enough to actually go through Vegeta's durable body.
Though I wonder if Goku could've simply detonated the beam at the moment of impact and if that would've made any difference.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Xyex » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:02 pm

First, a few things to correct here:
ringworm128 wrote:And Piccolo's Makankosapo was only a few thousand points above Raditz level yet Raditz himself said he would have been done in if it had hit him.
It was actually a few hundred points under Raditz. But it's also a drill type attack, designed to bore into and through targets. Much like the Kenzian is a cutting attack, designed to slice up targets. So, like Krillin's move, it can hurt those of a higher level than it.
ringworm128 wrote:Heck, Piccolo's entire arm was blown off by Raditz who was less then 1000 points above Piccolo.
Raditz was more than 1,000 points over Piccolo. A total of 3.676 times, which in Dragonball is a complete atomization capable difference.

And for the question itself...
ringworm128 wrote:So how come Vegeta with a BP of 18000 was able to survive being hit directly by a beam that was thousands of points above his max power?
Vegeta's Gallic Gun seems to be a focused attack akin to what Goku and Piccolo did against Raditz. Seeing that Raditz was able to recognize what they were doing, focusing their powers to a point for greater effect, it stands to reason he's seen such things before, so there's nothing to indicate that Vegeta couldn't do focused attacks. Taking that into account then, even though Vegeta's BP was 18,000, it stands to reason the Gallic Gun was stronger than that. Also of note, Goku was hurt and tiring at the time of the struggle, so it's likely his own BP was down some at that point.

Considering those factors, I'd say it's fairly safe to assume that Vegeta's Gallick Gun could have been as strong as 25,000 while Goku's Kamehameha may have topped out at 30,000. Next, before Goku's attack was able to hit Vegeta it had to push through Vegeta's attack, likely losing power along the way. Add to this the fact that it puhsed Vegeta instead of engulfing him. Being pushed would keep him largely out of harms' way, just shoving him along, instead of the attack tearing at him as it did with Cell.
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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by dario03 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:48 pm

On the flip side I still want to know why every attack Vegeta landed didn't put Goku down. Vegeta was twice as strong as Goku was without Kaio Ken so you would think every landed hit would wreck Goku.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Xyex » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:03 pm

Nothing says Vegeta was trying to kill him right off the bat. Raditz never would have lost if he'd taken his fight with Goku and Piccolo seriously. And eventually Goku started pulling out the Kaioken which helped even the balance.
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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Fox666 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:43 pm

Xyex wrote:Add to this the fact that it puhsed Vegeta instead of engulfing him. Being pushed would keep him largely out of harms' way, just shoving him along, instead of the attack tearing at him as it did with Cell.
Or only makes it worse, like being submerged in lava...

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Kaboom » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:11 pm

The "most of the Kamehameha's power was used up fighting against Vegeta's Gallic Gun" explanation has always been the first one to pop into my mind. The other factors that Xyex presented could also be part of it as well.
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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Fox666 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Yeah, but Goku also said his Genki-Dama was strong enough to defeat Oozaru Vegeta... and still it failed to kill his human form. Of course the Genki-dama had only half of the power, but Vegeta was ten times weaker! So Vegeta can withstand at least five times more damage than Goku tought was enough to kill him.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Dabooyaka » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:25 pm

Goku had been using Kaioken for a while. I'm sure his power level was way below 8k when he fired the 4x kk kamehameha combo. So he probably ended up only a tad stronger than Vegeta at that point.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Toadster » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:39 pm

I think Vegeta's Galick Gun weakened the blast some.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:57 pm

Vegeta is bulky, that is why.
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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Rocketman » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:41 pm

It's almost like flat numerical comparisons aren't the be-all and end-all of fighting.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by sonikku956 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:55 pm

ringworm128 wrote:Piccolo was able to wipe out a Saibaiman with one beam and his BP was under 2000. And Piccolo's Makankosapo was only a few thousand points above Raditz level yet Raditz himself said he would have been done in if it had hit him. Heck, Piccolo's entire arm was blown off by Raditz who was less then 1000 points above Piccolo. So how come Vegeta with a BP of 18000 was able to survive being hit directly by a beam that was thousands of points above his max power?
So? Krillin was weaker and he killed 5.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Ringworm128 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:21 am

Toadster wrote:I think Vegeta's Galick Gun weakened the blast some.
Then how was Gohan able to obliterate Cell? Shouldn't Cell's Kamehameha have softened the blast?
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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:54 am

Like other people have said that Vegeta has a great durability. Even when Gohan deflects the Genki Dama on him, he was still alive. Some could say that he was still alive for PIS so that they could keep the story going for a bit longer though.
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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by rereboy » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:53 am

Goku's power with the x4 Kaioken wasn't 8000 x 4. He was hurting all over from overusing the Kaioken so his start power had already diminished.

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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Monkey D Goku » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:44 pm

The hands of fate saved him.
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Re: How did the Kaioken X4 not obliterate Vegeta?

Post by Toadster » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:58 pm

ringworm128 wrote:
Toadster wrote:I think Vegeta's Galick Gun weakened the blast some.
Then how was Gohan able to obliterate Cell? Shouldn't Cell's Kamehameha have softened the blast?
I think Gohan releasing his full power is much more powerful than Cell. Goku and Vegeta were much closer in power by comparison. Also, Cell was caught off-gaurd by Vegeta... that probably affected his own Kamehameha's stopping power. That's just my theory though. After all, Vegeta shouldn't have even be able to hold Goku's kkx3 to begin with. I think the Galick Gun amplifies his power level.

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