If Saiyans > Kaioshin why was Piccolo afraid to fight?

[TobyS]

If Piccolos "our dimensions are too different" comment was about strength, how does this make sense.

He was effectively expecting to fight Cell Games super saiyan 2 Gohan. (Not knowing his power dropped) SS1/2 Vegeta and Son Goku.

They did not initially have the "no going ssj" rule in place when he decided to to take part in the tournament.

We later learn by feats mainly that SSJ1 >> Kaioshin.

How does this make sense.

I find it impossible to believe Piccolo is weaker.

I think some retconning went on with Kaioshins strength later as well, so it borders on plot hole too imo.

[Mystic Gohan]

Kaioshin was emitting no ki for anyone to sense. It was implied that Piccolo knew who Kaioshin was. He quit out of respect IMO.

[TobyS]

That's what I really want to believe too, but translators on here have said the line he used to describe it is a common one used to describe power.

Of course some people are bias as putting him below Kaioshin is neccesary pre-requisite for sickeningly putting him below Base/SSJ kids.

[Mystic Gohan]

This is the one time where it is supposed to be taken literally IMO. Remember that even Kaioshin is thinking: "Piccolo is starting to figure out who I am, after all he used to be the god of this planet". Or something near there.

[Bussani]

If Piccolos "our dimensions are too different" comment was about strength, how does this make sense.

He was effectively expecting to fight Cell Games super saiyan 2 Gohan. (Not knowing his power dropped) SS1/2 Vegeta and Son Goku.

They did not initially have the "no going ssj" rule in place when he decided to to take part in the tournament.

Maybe he wasn't expecting to win against them.

We later learn by feats mainly that SSJ1 >> Kaioshin.

How does this make sense.

I find it impossible to believe Piccolo is weaker.

Another option similar to Mystic Gohan's is that Piccolo thought Kaioshin was stronger based on his rank, but was overestimating him.

Keep in mind these two suggestions aren't meant to be compatible. I have no idea if Piccolo is supposed to be stronger than Kaioshin or not, so I'm just throwing out ideas off the top of my head.

[Herms]

If Piccolos "our dimensions are too different" comment was about strength, how does this make sense.

The line's pretty definitely about strength. Though I suppose you could still argue that Piccolo overestimates Kaioshin's strength relative to his own, or is simply lying to Goku (wanting to keep his suspicions to himself but needing to give some reason for throwing the match).

He was effectively expecting to fight Cell Games super saiyan 2 Gohan. (Not knowing his power dropped) SS1/2 Vegeta and Son Goku.

They did not initially have the "no going ssj" rule in place when he decided to to take part in the tournament.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Nothing indicates that Piccolo thought he had a chance of winning the tournament. He never even makes any "friendly rival"-type boasts. Kuririn and No.18 enter as well, but I don't think that tells us anything about their strength relative to Goku and co.

[TobyS]

If Piccolos "our dimensions are too different" comment was about strength, how does this make sense.

The line's pretty definitely about strength. Though I suppose you could still argue that Piccolo overestimates Kaioshin's strength relative to his own, or is simply lying to Goku (wanting to keep his suspicions to himself but needing to give some reason for throwing the match).

He was effectively expecting to fight Cell Games super saiyan 2 Gohan. (Not knowing his power dropped) SS1/2 Vegeta and Son Goku.

They did not initially have the "no going ssj" rule in place when he decided to to take part in the tournament.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Nothing indicates that Piccolo thought he had a chance of winning the tournament. He never even makes any "friendly rival"-type boasts. Kuririn and No.18 enter as well, but I don't think that tells us anything about their strength relative to Goku and co.

Well of course he was not expecting to win against any SSJ2's but my point was he was prepared to fight those dudes. Lets throw in some arbitrary numbers:

Piccolo is 3
Kaioshin is 6
Saiyans are 9

"I am prepared to fight anyone up to a strength of 9" - Piccolo
"Woah this 6 guy is too strong for me" - Piccolo

wha?

I like the "lied to Goku about power being an issue" theory.
I also like the Piccolo/everyone overestimated Kaioshins strength.

But could you really over-estimate someones strength so much that you think someone weaker than you is someone stronger.

No offence but the Kuririn and 18 thing is irrelevant they specifically mention their intention is to just place as high as possible to win prize money.

Piccolo ain't in it for the paper, ergo he was expecting to fight, and the fact he was willing to meant he didn't expect to be totally roflstomped by dudes already stronger than kaioshin...

The whole thing confuses me...

[Saiga]

There's a difference between fighting his friends and fighting a complete stranger, though.

[Bussani]

But could you really over-estimate someones strength so much that you think someone weaker than you is someone stronger.

I don't see why not. If he knows nothing about Kaioshin other than the fact that he's the highest god, then it should be pretty easy to overestimate him.

[the_abberration]

Well of course he was not expecting to win against any SSJ2's but my point was he was prepared to fight those dudes.

Also throw in that Goku would have held back to keep the fight even (with maybe just enough increase to win the match in the end). Gohan would have held back or even forfeited, out of respect to Piccolo. Vegeta is a toss up. He may have did the same as Goku, and save any extra power for a possible Goku match up (as well as taunting Piccolo). Or just power up to his strongest level, and make short work of Piccolo.

Piccolo would have factored those points in, since he had some insight on how they would think, from prior experiences (23rd tournament, former mentor/father figure, and rival/fellow combatant respectively).

But could you really over-estimate someones strength so much that you think someone weaker than you is someone stronger.

Why not? Holding someone in a position of reverence can do that. Case in point. Gohan does it with Goku against Cell, when he thought Goku was holding back against him.

[Mystic Gohan]

If Piccolos "our dimensions are too different" comment was about strength, how does this make sense.

The line's pretty definitely about strength. Though I suppose you could still argue that Piccolo overestimates Kaioshin's strength relative to his own, or is simply lying to Goku (wanting to keep his suspicions to himself but needing to give some reason for throwing the match).

He was effectively expecting to fight Cell Games super saiyan 2 Gohan. (Not knowing his power dropped) SS1/2 Vegeta and Son Goku.

They did not initially have the "no going ssj" rule in place when he decided to to take part in the tournament.

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Nothing indicates that Piccolo thought he had a chance of winning the tournament. He never even makes any "friendly rival"-type boasts. Kuririn and No.18 enter as well, but I don't think that tells us anything about their strength relative to Goku and co.

Well of course he was not expecting to win against any SSJ2's but my point was he was prepared to fight those dudes. Lets throw in some arbitrary numbers:

Piccolo is 3
Kaioshin is 6
Saiyans are 9

"I am prepared to fight anyone up to a strength of 9" - Piccolo
"Woah this 6 guy is too strong for me" - Piccolo

wha?

I like the "lied to Goku about power being an issue" theory.
I also like the Piccolo/everyone overestimated Kaioshins strength.

But could you really over-estimate someones strength so much that you think someone weaker than you is someone stronger.

No offence but the Kuririn and 18 thing is irrelevant they specifically mention their intention is to just place as high as possible to win prize money.

Piccolo ain't in it for the paper, ergo he was expecting to fight, and the fact he was willing to meant he didn't expect to be totally roflstomped by dudes already stronger than kaioshin...

The whole thing confuses me...

Vegeta does admit later that they all overestimated Kaioshin.

[Herms]

Vegeta does admit later that they all overestimated Kaioshin.

Vegeta says that he and Goku have gotten so strong that Kaioshin, who should be a really impressive guy, isn't much compared to them. And Kaioshin makes a big deal about how strong Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta all are, since random non-gods aren't supposed to be stronger than him. But there's nothing about Kaioshin being weaker than Piccolo expected, or Piccolo being stronger than Kaioshin expected.

[Bussani]

Just since it hasn't been mentioned yet, Kaioshin's Daizenshuu 7 bio also says that his strength is "far superior" to Piccolo's. For whatever that's worth.

[hleV]

Piccolo doesn't have to be that strong. He was comparable to #17 and then went into ROSAT once or twice. Then trained for 7 years I guess, but probably much less intensively. He doesn't have to be so strong that Kaioshin being far superior to him would seem wrong.

[Bussani]

Piccolo doesn't have to be that strong. He was comparable to #17 and then went into ROSAT once or twice. Then trained for 7 years I guess, but probably much less intensively. He doesn't have to be so strong that Kaioshin being far superior to him would seem wrong.

Yeah, but what TobyS is saying is that Piccolo was entering a tournament where he'd be up against Super Saiyans who are stronger than Kaioshin. If Kaioshin is far stronger than Piccolo, and the Super Saiyans are far stronger than Kaioshin, then what was Piccolo thinking?

Honestly, I'd still believe he didn't expect to win and was just entering because it would be fun. You know, for old times' sake? See how much more incredible Goku has become, etc.

[Herms]

Honestly, I'd still believe he didn't expect to win and was just entering because it would be fun. You know, for old times sake? See how much more incredible Goku has become, etc.

I'd say this is the most likely explanation.

[Godo]

Well, with the "no SSJ rule" that Goku laid out, Piccolo would still have a great chance at winning, considering that he didn't need to transform to reach that level of power.
But with Kaioshin, both had great power. In other words it wouldn't play out to have a fight between them.

IMO I just believe that out of universe, they didn't fight out of the following reasons:

- Piccolo had become a side-line character to gauge the new enemies' strengths (hell, he is even paired up with Kuririn against Dabra to show Dabra's terrifying powers!).
- Piccolo went against Imperfect Cell who was much stronger than him (when he was fighting #17). He is no stranger to still fight when he is outclassed. So to make him to not fight against Kaioshin they bring out his inner Kami. I mean, just for convenience's sake they make his Kami side to emerge (it had been pretty much GONE since his "I am not Kami nor Piccolo" line).

Piccolo's role in the Boo arc is the following:

- To make Kaioshin to look SO great that Buu seems even more terrifying when Kaioshin tells about him. (Whilst Vegeta comments about how puny Kaioshin is compared to him).
- To make Dabra seem intimidating and dangerous. (Whilst Vegeta comments about how puny Gohan has come).
- To make him to gauge other enemies' strengths (like Kuririn, he became the new arc's human scouter).
- To make him a mentor for Goten and Trunks.

It doesn't matter if he was stronger or not. Toriyama had already decided that Piccolo would be "Kuririn No. 2".
I mean, the relationship Piccolo had with Goten and Trunks was pretty mcuch the same that Kuririn had with Gohan in the Namek arc.

Piccolo is the new Kuririn.

[Michsi]

Personally, I think the the Kaioshin's importance/strength was retconned in a way because Toriyama didn't think his role in this arc properly through. Knowing the author's tendancy to not plan his story that carefully and write by the seat of his pants, it just might be that he didn't know how to use the character other than exposition and the worf effect. He pretty much becomes a joke later on, which is why think a lot of people have difficulty accepting him as being the stronger.

[Jackal puFF]

Piccolo just didn't want to fight someone holy. It'll be like wanting to fight the Dalai Llama or Jesus. It was probably the Kami inside him that held him back.

[DBZAOTA482]

It's because Kaioshin is a whiny shit, and Piccolo didn't want to humiliate him in front of everyone because the purple fucker wind-up crying about it.