The decisions of Baby

[Fizzer]

There are two things I'm wondering about, here:

1. When Baby went to Earth, why did he seek out Vegeta's body, and not Gohan's?

2. Why are Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Bra allowed to live as Tsufruians, and Vegeta honoured with becoming the body of Baby, while Goku is seen as a detestable Saiyan which must be exterminated?

[Saiga]

There are two things I'm wondering about, here:

1. When Baby went to Earth, why did he seek out Vegeta's body, and not Gohan's?

2. Why are Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Bra allowed to live as Tsufruians, and Vegeta honoured with becoming the body of Baby, while Goku is seen as a detestable Saiyan which must be exterminated?

1. Because Vegeta is stronger than Gohan in GT.

2. Well, the others are at least not pure Saiyans, and Vegeta was honoured due to being the strongest host and probably also because it was Baby's way of taking revenge on the prince of Saiyans. No idea why he never tried to possess Goku though.

[Hellspawn28]

Bebi most likely didn't know how powerful Goku really was and Bebi wanted Vegeta since his goal was to have revenge.

[Xyex]

It always seemed to me that if he really wanted revenge against the Saiyans, and Vegeta's family especially, he'd take over someone other than Vegeta so that he could kill him. As opposed to, you know, basicly being stuck living as him for the rest of his life. Bebi taking over, and remaing in, Vegeta has always been one of my main issues with him. :/

[Gyt Kaliba]

It always seemed to me that if he really wanted revenge against the Saiyans, and Vegeta's family especially, he'd take over someone other than Vegeta so that he could kill him. As opposed to, you know, basicly being stuck living as him for the rest of his life. Bebi taking over, and remaing in, Vegeta has always been one of my main issues with him. :/

There's not really much emphasis put into it, but I always kind of thought it was because Vegeta having to live out the rest of his days as a prisoner in his own body - a prisoner to a Tsufurian no less - was kind of a punishment 'worse than death'. If Vegeta died fighting Baby, he at least could go out in a blaze of glory with his pride intact. Being stuck as the host of Baby on the other hand would be a HORRIBLE blow to Vegeta's pride from the inside.

At least, that's how I chose to look at it. Again, not really much evidence I can put behind it.

As for the original questions -

1) Like Xyex said, Vegeta seems to be stronger than Gohan in GT, so we're left to just take that at face value. I guess maybe Gohan slacked off again, what with becoming a teacher and a father, and Vegeta pulled ahead of him again.

2) It's not really an 'honor' to be Baby's body, at least not to the host anyway. Baby probably thought of it as such, but to Vegeta it would just be an insult, as I said before. With the others though...I guess it was just him trying to screw with Goku's head by turning everyone against him.

[Piccolo Daimao]

1. When Baby went to Earth, why did he seek out Vegeta's body, and not Gohan's?

As others have mentioned, Vegeta was portrayed as being stronger than Gohan, who appeared to have lost his Ultimate power-up and slacked off in his training again, likely because he was focusing on being a scholar.

2. Why are Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Bra allowed to live as Tsufruians, and Vegeta honoured with becoming the body of Baby, while Goku is seen as a detestable Saiyan which must be exterminated?

Because the ultimate revenge against the Saiyan race would be forcing their prince to live out the rest of his days as a prisoner in his own body, effectively losing the identity that he took such great pride in and it being completely taken over by his species' worst enemy. (And I guess, if he really wanted to, or just got bored of occupying Vegeta's body, he could just pop out of his body and kill him before he knew what the hell was going on.)

He probably deemed that, after possessing Gohan, Goten, Trunks, Bra, and primarily Vegeta, he didn't need to possess Gokuu. Perhaps Baby was still under the impression that Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan, not Gokuu, since he was the Prince of the Saiyans. Maybe turning all of Gokuu's friends against him was exactly what Baby wanted.

Of course, the out-of-universe answer is that Gokuu is the main character, GT stands for Godkuu Time, and Gokuu must be the one to escape possession and defeat Baby. (And he'd probably just kick Baby out with his awesome Gokuu-ness anyway, amirite?)

[Thanos]

I was not really thrilled with the Bebi/Vegeta type shit. I would've liked to have seen a Mystic Bebi Gohan situation of him being the mastermind. As it was, it was basically Majin Vegeta situation all over again.

[NeoKING]

It's not because Vegeta was stronger than Gohan. It was because Vegeta was the Saiyan Prince, and was the only person on Earth who really knew about the wars that took place on Planet Vegeta long ago. Possessing the powerful Prince of Saiyans was the perfect revenge move.

[Saiga]

It's not because Vegeta was stronger than Gohan. It was because Vegeta was the Saiyan Prince, and was the only person on Earth who really knew about the wars that took place on Planet Vegeta long ago. Possessing the powerful Prince of Saiyans was the perfect revenge move.

No, it is. Baby says so.

[Fizzer]

2) It's not really an 'honor' to be Baby's body, at least not to the host anyway. Baby probably thought of it as such, but to Vegeta it would just be an insult, as I said before. With the others though...I guess it was just him trying to screw with Goku's head by turning everyone against him.

I did mean that from Baby's point of view, Baby would have seen it as an honour, unless he knew enough about Vegeta's psychology to put himself in his position.

It really seems like if he was going to hate one Saiyan enough to kill them instead of converting them, it would have been Vegeta. Now THAT would have been great to see, and would have fixed the "Goku Time" issue: Goku becomes the villain, Vegeta saves the day. Vegeta gets SSJ4 first, Bra can be un-converted and play the role of Pan in the transformation... Also, Vegeta in Sugaroku space.

I'll just go die due to sheer desire now...

I was not really thrilled with the Bebi/Vegeta type shit. I would've liked to have seen a Mystic Bebi Gohan situation of him being the mastermind. As it was, it was basically Majin Vegeta situation all over again.

I agree, I would have liked to see Goku fighting Gohan rather than Vegeta again. I think Goku and Vegeta's rivalry just has too many fans.

It's not because Vegeta was stronger than Gohan. It was because Vegeta was the Saiyan Prince, and was the only person on Earth who really knew about the wars that took place on Planet Vegeta long ago. Possessing the powerful Prince of Saiyans was the perfect revenge move.

No, it is. Baby says so.

If I remember, he gets that from... Goten's memories? He doesn't seem to be great at telling how powerful people are (he even suspects that Chichi harbours a secret power) so he was just going on peoples' memories. Since it was Goten's memory though, and not Trunks' or Bra's, that wouldn't really explain mistaking Vegeta for the most powerful in place of Gohan, if that's what happened.

[Nazi Cola]

Episode 26
Time: around 6m40s
Subject: Saiyans
Baby: (to himself) "When I was with Trunks, I wasn't able to completely read his memory, but I can read Goten's. I see... There are Saiyans in Metro West, huh? And among them, the mightiest Saiyan is...Vegeta..."

Episode 26
Time: around 7m30s
Subject: Vegeta
Baby: (to himself) "Vegeta... If I make his Saiya power my own, I will obtain the power to surpass even Trunks and Goku's Saiya power!"

Episode 26
Time: around 13m25s
Subject: Chi-Chi
Baby: (to himself) "What is this feeling of intimidation? According to Goten's memory, even though she has no power, she's greater than anyone. Could it be that she has some hidden power?"

After possessing Vegeta's body in Episode 27, Baby says he's obtained the mightiest body in the universe, so clearly Vegeta > Gohan in GT.

As for why he decided to kill Goku, it was because he didn't think Goku was worthy of being a Tsufruian apparently.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

As others have mentioned, Vegeta was portrayed as being stronger than Gohan, who appeared to have lost his Ultimate power-up and slacked off in his training again, likely because he was focusing on being a scholar.

Actually, according to the GT Perfect Files Vol. #1, Gohan did not neglect his training, which makes things even more confusing...

[Piccolo Daimao]

Episode 26
Time: around 6m40s
Subject: Saiyans
Baby: (to himself) "When I was with Trunks, I wasn't able to completely read his memory, but I can read Goten's. I see... There are Saiyans in Metro West, huh? And among them, the mightiest Saiyan is...Vegeta..."

So, what does this tell us? Goten believes that Vegeta is the strongest Saiyan? Perhaps, a leftover from his former belief that Vegeta, who died heroically sacrificing himself against Boo, may've been stronger than Gokuu, who was unconscious while this was all going on and failed to save both his rival and his son? Or perhaps Goten, subconsciously or not, tricked Baby into possessing Vegeta, rather than his father?

Also, why wouldn't Baby have been able to "completely" read Trunks' memory, but could do for Goten? Does Trunks have higher mental powers than Goten? And why am I thinking so much about how to make GT make sense?

Episode 26
Time: around 13m25s
Subject: Chi-Chi
Baby: (to himself) "What is this feeling of intimidation? According to Goten's memory, even though she has no power, she's greater than anyone. Could it be that she has some hidden power?"

Probably a joke, pertaining to Chi-Chi's strict and stubborn nature. Like when Piccolo said after Gokuu tried to persuade Chi-Chi to let him train Gohan, "Even a Super Saiyan has a weakness."

After possessing Vegeta's body in Episode 27, Baby says he's obtained the mightiest body in the universe, so clearly Vegeta > Gohan in GT.

Yeah, I'd say that's a given. Vegeta probably just trained harder than Gohan. He's a pure-blooded Saiyan after all, second only to Gokuu, so no matter how much dormant power and natural ability Gohan may have, he doesn't have as much motivation for strength as Gokuu and Vegeta do.

As others have mentioned, Vegeta was portrayed as being stronger than Gohan, who appeared to have lost his Ultimate power-up and slacked off in his training again, likely because he was focusing on being a scholar.

Actually, according to the GT Perfect Files Vol. #1, Gohan did not neglect his training, which makes things even more confusing...

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Since the power-scaling was all out of whack in GT, perhaps Gohan either ended up surpassing the limits of his Ultimate power-up and, in turn, regained his ("replaced" or not) Super Saiyan transformations, or he did just train at a steady rate, to keep in shape, but didn't do enough training to retain his Ultimate power-up. Either way, Vegeta still would've trained harder than him, therefore kept ahead of his power. And Gokuu either trained either harder, and was stronger on account of being more gifted and/or having a larger resource of more dormant power to draw from. That, and/or he's the goddamn Gokuu.

But you know, aside from the odd instances here and there, none of them really ever seem to use Super Saiyan 2. Apparently because, from Toei's standpoint, it's not distinguishable enough from Super Saiyan. Or, for all we know, they did; we just couldn't be sure, because Toei and their animation team like to add and not add lightning sparks whenever they fucking feel like it.

Cheap-ass Toei. Give us some consistency, goddammit!

[Mystic Gohan]

Episode 26
Time: around 6m40s
Subject: Saiyans
Baby: (to himself) "When I was with Trunks, I wasn't able to completely read his memory, but I can read Goten's. I see... There are Saiyans in Metro West, huh? And among them, the mightiest Saiyan is...Vegeta..."

Episode 26
Time: around 7m30s
Subject: Vegeta
Baby: (to himself) "Vegeta... If I make his Saiya power my own, I will obtain the power to surpass even Trunks and Goku's Saiya power!"

Episode 26
Time: around 13m25s
Subject: Chi-Chi
Baby: (to himself) "What is this feeling of intimidation? According to Goten's memory, even though she has no power, she's greater than anyone. Could it be that she has some hidden power?"

After possessing Vegeta's body in Episode 27, Baby says he's obtained the mightiest body in the universe, so clearly Vegeta > Gohan in GT.

As for why he decided to kill Goku, it was because he didn't think Goku was worthy of being a Tsufruian apparently.

KP is dat you?

[Hellspawn28]

As others have mentioned, Vegeta was portrayed as being stronger than Gohan, who appeared to have lost his Ultimate power-up and slacked off in his training again, likely because he was focusing on being a scholar.

Actually, according to the GT Perfect Files Vol. #1, Gohan did not neglect his training, which makes things even more confusing...

Maybe after Buu, he stop training then started training again after Goku left with Buu tp make sure if Goku never came back?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

As others have mentioned, Vegeta was portrayed as being stronger than Gohan, who appeared to have lost his Ultimate power-up and slacked off in his training again, likely because he was focusing on being a scholar.

Actually, according to the GT Perfect Files Vol. #1, Gohan did not neglect his training, which makes things even more confusing...

Maybe after Buu, he stop training then started training again after Goku left with Buu tp make sure if Goku never came back?

That's exactly what I believe for Gohan. Stopped training for 10 years, lost the Ultimate power-up, and then resumed his training during the 5 years between Z & GT. I don't think though that he was afraid for Goku, maybe so that he can stand at Oob's side if he ever needed him. Gohan also seems to have gotten even more powerful between Baby arc & Super #17 arc (and Goku, of course, which would also result Vegeta getting stronger too, to match Goku) since:
Goku (Baby arc, base) > Rild (base) = Gohan (Super #17 arc, base) >> Gohan (Baby arc, SS)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Since the power-scaling was all out of whack in GT, perhaps Gohan either ended up surpassing the limits of his Ultimate power-up and, in turn, regained his ("replaced" or not) Super Saiyan transformations, or he did just train at a steady rate, to keep in shape, but didn't do enough training to retain his Ultimate power-up. Either way, Vegeta still would've trained harder than him, therefore kept ahead of his power. And Gokuu either trained either harder, and was stronger on account of being more gifted and/or having a larger resource of more dormant power to draw from. That, and/or he's the goddamn Gokuu.

Nah, I prefer the lost power-up theory. If Gohan was an Ultimate Super Saiyan in GT, and got his ass kicked with SS Goten (who should be at least equal to Pure Boo, and stronger than Baby arc base Gohan) on his side by fucking base Goku, that would make Goku way more ridiculously powerful, and I don't want that.

But you know, aside from the odd instances here and there, none of them really ever seem to use Super Saiyan 2. Apparently because, from Toei's standpoint, it's not distinguishable enough from Super Saiyan. Or, for all we know, they did; we just couldn't be sure, because Toei and their animation team like to add and not add lightning sparks whenever they fucking feel like it.

I can understand Goku not using SS2 at all, since all the enemies he fought were either weaker than his SS form, equal to his SS, or stronger than his SS3 form. But as for why Gohan didn't use the form against Oozaru Baby, Super #17, and Super Yi Xing Long, as well as Vegeta against Super #17 & Super Yi Xing Long... I don't know. Same logic for why Goten & Trunks didn't use Fusion against Super #17 & Super Yi Xing Long. Fuck you Goku...

[Saiga]

From that statement, I think Gohan did infact keep training hard enough to magically become a Super Saiyan again, because fuck logic. I can't see him stopping training or not training enough to keep the power up when it's said that he didn't do that.

[Nazi Cola]

So, what does this tell us? Goten believes that Vegeta is the strongest Saiyan? Perhaps, a leftover from his former belief that Vegeta, who died heroically sacrificing himself against Boo, may've been stronger than Gokuu, who was unconscious while this was all going on and failed to save both his rival and his son? Or perhaps Goten, subconsciously or not, tricked Baby into possessing Vegeta, rather than his father?

Eh, Goten would've known by the time he got possessed that Vegeta was stronger than Gohan.

Also, why wouldn't Baby have been able to "completely" read Trunks' memory, but could do for Goten? Does Trunks have higher mental powers than Goten? And why am I thinking so much about how to make GT make sense?

Baby was only in Trunks for a bit, wasn't he? Whereas he had completely control over Goten to where Goten couldn't drive him out.

Probably a joke, pertaining to Chi-Chi's strict and stubborn nature. Like when Piccolo said after Gokuu tried to persuade Chi-Chi to let him train Gohan, "Even a Super Saiyan has a weakness."

Agreed.

KP is dat you?

Who?

Nah, I prefer the lost power-up theory. If Gohan was an Ultimate Super Saiyan in GT, and got his ass kicked with SS Goten (who should be at least equal to Pure Boo, and stronger than Baby arc base Gohan) on his side by fucking base Goku, that would make Goku way more ridiculously powerful, and I don't want that.

Ehhh, that's poor reasoning, don't you think? Not a lot of people want the kids to be Super Saiyans, but I don't see anyone coming up with ways to explain otherwise. Just because you don't like something that happened doesn't mean you can pretend it didn't.

I can understand Goku not using SS2 at all, since all the enemies he fought were either weaker than his SS form, equal to his SS, or stronger than his SS3 form. But as for why Gohan didn't use the form against Oozaru Baby, Super #17, and Super Yi Xing Long, as well as Vegeta against Super #17 & Super Yi Xing Long... I don't know. Same logic for why Goten & Trunks didn't use Fusion against Super #17 & Super Yi Xing Long. Fuck you Goku...

Goku used the form to dodge Rilldo's metal attack on Planet M2, and he seemed to go through all the stages powering up for Super #17, but that's all I can recall. Gohan used the form against Super #17, or at least it's heavily implied he did. Vegeta might as well have used it against Super #17 and Super Yi Xing Long. Goten and Trunks, who knows.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Nah, I prefer the lost power-up theory. If Gohan was an Ultimate Super Saiyan in GT, and got his ass kicked with SS Goten (who should be at least equal to Pure Boo, and stronger than Baby arc base Gohan) on his side by fucking base Goku, that would make Goku way more ridiculously powerful, and I don't want that.

Ehhh, that's poor reasoning, don't you think? Not a lot of people want the kids to be Super Saiyans, but I don't see anyone coming up with ways to explain otherwise. Just because you don't like something that happened doesn't mean you can pretend it didn't.

The kids being Super Saiyan have nothing to do with it. The kids are clearly Super Saiyans in every DB media, so if anyone believes that they are not Super Saiyans shou go and meet a doctor. But in Ultimate Gohan's case in GT however, nothing proves, or disproves, that Gohan has kept his Ultimate power-up, so it's up to the viewer to decide if he did or not. If there was at least one hint that he did kept it, I would go with it. But since it's not, I will try to keep the power of Goku as low as possible.

Goku used the form to dodge Rilldo's metal attack on Planet M2

Oh yes, forgot about that.

Gohan used the form against Super #17, or at least it's heavily implied he did.

It wasn't implied at all.

[Nazi Cola]

The kids being Super Saiyan have nothing to do with it. The kids are clearly Super Saiyans in every DB media, so if anyone believes that they are not Super Saiyans shou go and meet a doctor. But in Ultimate Gohan's case in GT however, nothing proves, or disproves, that Gohan has kept his Ultimate power-up, so it's up to the viewer to decide if he did or not. If there was at least one hint that he did kept it, I would go with it. But since it's not, I will try to keep the power of Goku as low as possible.

Eh, suit yourself. I just think his appearance looks the same as his Z self, paired with what the GT Perfect Files say, so I don't see a need to think he lost the power-up.

It wasn't implied at all.

Episode 44
Time: 15m
Context: Super No.17 has just beaten down the Zet Senshi
Gohan: "It's been a long time since I've been enraged from the bottom of my heart!"

That's an implication, isn't it? Rage + Super Saiyan + Gohan? His hair is different from his other transformations previously in GT as well, since he's got a hanging bang in this fight whereas his hair is all sticking straight up when he fights Goten, Vegeta, and Goku.