Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
dbzfan7 wrote:SSJ4 was achieved with blutzwaves and the control of a giant golden monkey, not exactly the same as normal SSJ forms.
I never said SSJ2 was less powerful, I said the design was lazy with everyone except Kid Gohan. Look closely at the design, it looks practically the same as SSJ1. Compare COD mw1,2,3. They do look differently but still look practically the same. I can't see no eyebrows as intimidating on a humanoid, it looks so weird.
The only SSJ2 I cant differentiate from there SSJ form is Vegeta. Other than that its an obvious change. SSJ forms have multiple differences in forms. Seriously what do you expect form these forms? Obviously you cant incorporate the Oozaru since its stated to be inferior.
Compare SSJ Gohan to SSJ2 in the Cell Saga, there is a radical difference in look. Compare everyone else. Does that not look like a slight change. I notice spiker hair, sharper look, etc, but it still looks like a touched up SSJ. For Goku I liked the design that resembled SSJ2 Gohan since it looked different then his original SSJ. Vegeta can't really be helped. Gohan could have had one of his earlier looks with the trunks looking jacket and his SSJ early design still would show a difference if compared to SSJ2 Gohan we see. Also I am very picky if you haven't noticed.
I am kind of sick of arguing an opinion based topics. Neither one of us can be right since there is no right answer. There are no facts to follow besides what we feel is right. This argument of personal preference is trivial. Agree to disagree is all I can say.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:SSJ4 was achieved with blutzwaves and the control of a giant golden monkey, not exactly the same as normal SSJ forms.
I never said SSJ2 was less powerful, I said the design was lazy with everyone except Kid Gohan. Look closely at the design, it looks practically the same as SSJ1. Compare COD mw1,2,3. They do look differently but still look practically the same. I can't see no eyebrows as intimidating on a humanoid, it looks so weird.
The only SSJ2 I cant differentiate from there SSJ form is Vegeta. Other than that its an obvious change. SSJ forms have multiple differences in forms. Seriously what do you expect form these forms? Obviously you cant incorporate the Oozaru since its stated to be inferior.
Compare SSJ Gohan to SSJ2 in the Cell Saga, there is a radical difference in look. Compare everyone else. Does that not look like a slight change. I notice spiker hair, sharper look, etc, but it still looks like a touched up SSJ. For Goku I liked the design that resembled SSJ2 Gohan since it looked different then his original SSJ. Vegeta can't really be helped. Gohan could have had one of his earlier looks with the trunks looking jacket and his SSJ early design still would show a difference if compared to SSJ2 Gohan we see. Also I am very picky if you haven't noticed.
I am kind of sick of arguing an opinion based topics. Neither one of us can be right since there is no right answer. There are no facts to follow besides what we feel is right. This argument of personal preference is trivial. Agree to disagree is all I can say.
You avoided the question. What do you expect the ascensions to look like?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
dbzfan7 wrote:Compare SSJ Gohan to SSJ2 in the Cell Saga, there is a radical difference in look. Compare everyone else. Does that not look like a slight change. I notice spiker hair, sharper look, etc, but it still looks like a touched up SSJ. For Goku I liked the design that resembled SSJ2 Gohan since it looked different then his original SSJ. Vegeta can't really be helped. Gohan could have had one of his earlier looks with the trunks looking jacket and his SSJ early design still would show a difference if compared to SSJ2 Gohan we see. Also I am very picky if you haven't noticed.
I am kind of sick of arguing an opinion based topics. Neither one of us can be right since there is no right answer. There are no facts to follow besides what we feel is right. This argument of personal preference is trivial. Agree to disagree is all I can say.[/quote]
TheMightyOzaru wrote:You avoided the question. What do you expect the ascensions to look like?
For Gohan I would make his SSJ look from the future era his own. Then keep his current SSJ2. Or his SSJ style would fit closer to Cell saga look. I already made a thread on why I don't like Base Gohan's hair in Boo saga and beyond.
Vegeta is impossible since all his SSJ styles except 3 and 4 are the same.
Also keep in mind I said I was picky.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:Compare SSJ Gohan to SSJ2 in the Cell Saga, there is a radical difference in look. Compare everyone else. Does that not look like a slight change. I notice spiker hair, sharper look, etc, but it still looks like a touched up SSJ. For Goku I liked the design that resembled SSJ2 Gohan since it looked different then his original SSJ. Vegeta can't really be helped. Gohan could have had one of his earlier looks with the trunks looking jacket and his SSJ early design still would show a difference if compared to SSJ2 Gohan we see. Also I am very picky if you haven't noticed.
I am kind of sick of arguing an opinion based topics. Neither one of us can be right since there is no right answer. There are no facts to follow besides what we feel is right. This argument of personal preference is trivial. Agree to disagree is all I can say.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:You avoided the question. What do you expect the ascensions to look like?
For Gohan I would make his SSJ look from the future era his own. Then keep his current SSJ2. Or his SSJ style would fit closer to Cell saga look. I already made a thread on why I don't like Base Gohan's hair in Boo saga and beyond.
Vegeta is impossible since all his SSJ styles except 3 and 4 are the same.
Also keep in mind I said I was picky.[/quote]
Thats not much of a difference.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
dbzfan7 wrote:Compare SSJ Gohan to SSJ2 in the Cell Saga, there is a radical difference in look. Compare everyone else. Does that not look like a slight change. I notice spiker hair, sharper look, etc, but it still looks like a touched up SSJ. For Goku I liked the design that resembled SSJ2 Gohan since it looked different then his original SSJ. Vegeta can't really be helped. Gohan could have had one of his earlier looks with the trunks looking jacket and his SSJ early design still would show a difference if compared to SSJ2 Gohan we see. Also I am very picky if you haven't noticed.
I am kind of sick of arguing an opinion based topics. Neither one of us can be right since there is no right answer. There are no facts to follow besides what we feel is right. This argument of personal preference is trivial. Agree to disagree is all I can say.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:You avoided the question. What do you expect the ascensions to look like?
For Gohan I would make his SSJ look from the future era his own. Then keep his current SSJ2. Or his SSJ style would fit closer to Cell saga look. I already made a thread on why I don't like Base Gohan's hair in Boo saga and beyond.
Vegeta is impossible since all his SSJ styles except 3 and 4 are the same.
Also keep in mind I said I was picky.
Thats not much of a difference.[/quote]
Comparing it to his official SSJ and official SSJ2 is is. The whole SSJ2 is barely different then 1 is the whole reason why we never see characters take SSJ2 often and why even in the latest card game they skip SSJ2 for pretty much everyone.
Here we have his SSJ2 which has the three bangs he has in SSJ1 but spread apart and sharper.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Appūru-sama wrote:...also, one of my favorite images of all time:
I always hated this image myself. While I'm not the biggest fan of Super Saiyan 4 I certainly dont feel it needs to be insulted like that. I dont see how you get a pink cat + Goku = Red Monkey Man =/. I get that there making fun of the pink thing but Goku's fur is supposed to be red and its supposed to resemble that of you know a monkey... This image is a rather pointless jab at the transformation itself.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Even though I love Super Saiyan 4, I also love the Pink Panther joke.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I just found a pic of SSJ4 Goku with gold hair and it looks pretty sweet.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
TheMightyOzaru wrote:I just found a pic of SSJ4 Goku with gold hair and it looks pretty sweet.
Can you share it? I'd like to see that.
Got it I just didnt know how to post images for a sec.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
Ah, that's The_Devil's_Corpse's work, a member of this very forum. You should check out some of his work and designs for his DBR project. They're really cool!
Anyway, I do think SSJ4 had to be radically different, I mean, it's hard to really top SSJ3 in the gold hair and lighting department.
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
I wonder if this is how Toriyama feels most of the time, because it's weird stumbling into my own works outside their hosted location... xD
I do feel the need to reiterate from my DA account though, that is supposed to be a theoretical SS5 design. I don't like the idea of adding further transformations, but if I HAD to design another step beyond SS4, that's what it would have been. Even though I don't really like the idea of mixing the yellow and pink/red (I agree with Nakatsuru that the black looks much better), it's a much better option than the various AF SS5 designs I've seen, IMO.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I wonder if this is how Toriyama feels most of the time, because it's weird stumbling into my own works outside their hosted location... xD
I do feel the need to reiterate from my DA account though, that is supposed to be a theoretical SS5 design. I don't like the idea of adding further transformations, but if I HAD to design another step beyond SS4, that's what it would have been. Even though I don't really like the idea of mixing the yellow and pink/red (I agree with Nakatsuru that the black looks much better), it's a much better option than the various AF SS5 designs I've seen, IMO.
It still looks like a pretty cool SSJ4 design.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
I don't like how the gold is drawn with the red/pink fur. I love how close the design is close to dragonball though. I still stand by the official design except for the pink fur. Toriyama also likes the official design.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
