Dabura >=< Perfect Cell(Not Super Perfect)?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Who do you guys think is stronger?

[Mystic Gohan]

Who do you guys think is stronger?

Dabura was struggling with a weakened SSjin Gohan. Super Perfect Cell and Full Power Perfect Cell take him out easy. His suppressed versions are more controversial.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I dunno. On one hand, I think it's pretty silly that Goku would bother mentioning a weaker version of Cell in the comparison, but when I look at it more--it's very possible that he was just comparing Dabra to the general range of power Cell had back then rather than a specific version of Cell. If Gohan's only a Super Saiyan there, Dabra can't be as strong as Full-Power Cell. What we do know is Dabra ended up displaying much more power than he thought he was capable of, so he's above whatever Cell he had in mind.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I dunno. On one hand, I think it's pretty silly that Goku would bother mentioning a weaker version of Cell in the comparison, but when I look at it more--it's very possible that he was just comparing Dabra to the general range of power Cell had back then rather than a specific version of Cell. If Gohan's only a Super Saiyan there, Dabra can't be as strong as Full-Power Cell. What we do know is Dabra ended up displaying much more power than he thought he was capable of, so he's above whatever Cell he had in mind.

I guess he could be referencing the suppressed state he fought.

[Kaboom]

"About as strong as Cell" is a VEEEEEERY wide range of power. There are no other villains to compare to him. His 2nd Stage was already better than the strongest of the Androids, and he showed more and more power in his Perfect form after achieving it.

So if 2nd-Form Cell is a 10 and Perfect Cell capped out at 100, then Dabra falling anywhere in between there means he is "about as strong as Cell." Like I said, there's no other comparable threat to compare him to in that range.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The last time we saw Cell, he was Super Perfect Cell. Goku said that he was about as strong as Cell, and then that he was greater than they thought (because of his magic), so Dabra is stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

I have Dabura's power around Perfect Cell's power-up used against MSSjin Goku and probably MSSjin Kid Gohan in the Cell Games Saga.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The last time we saw Cell, he was Super Perfect Cell. Goku said that he was about as strong as Cell, and then that he was greater than they thought (because of his magic), so Dabra is stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

Dabura was having trouble with a weaker SSJ, not SSJ2, Gohan. He also wasn't very, if at all, angry so there is no way he is even close to SPC.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The last time we saw Cell, he was Super Perfect Cell. Goku said that he was about as strong as Cell, and then that he was greater than they thought (because of his magic), so Dabra is stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

Dabura was having trouble with a weaker SSJ, not SSJ2, Gohan. He also wasn't very, if at all, angry so there is no way he is even close to SPC.

IMO, Gohan was Super Saiyan 2, but erroneously drawn as Super Saiyan.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Gokuu didn't fight Super Perfect Cell.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The last time we saw Cell, he was Super Perfect Cell. Goku said that he was about as strong as Cell, and then that he was greater than they thought (because of his magic), so Dabra is stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

Dabura was having trouble with a weaker SSJ, not SSJ2, Gohan. He also wasn't very, if at all, angry so there is no way he is even close to SPC.

IMO, Gohan was Super Saiyan 2, but erroneously drawn as Super Saiyan.

Or we can just assume Goku is referring to the suppressed Cell he fought. Poof no more need to over complicate things. There is also another huge problem with your theory. Vegeta likely didn't surpass Gohan in those 7 years and he said he could handle Dabura no problem.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Gokuu didn't fight Super Perfect Cell.

So what? He did feel his ki.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Vegeta said Kuririn's ki was massive after he got powered up by the Great Elder even though it wasn't even half his. Ki sensing isn't entirely reliable as fights.

[hleV]

Cell has grown from #16's level (lower, actually, but Dabra couldn't be that weak) to SS2 level. Goku may have been referring to Cell at any point in time.
Also, having fought Gohan for a little while, Dabra was quite confident in his ability to deal with Gohan in the 2nd round. Villain arrogance? Not necessarily.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well thanks for the input guys, I think I'll settle on Dabura being stronger than the Perfect Cell Goku fought. Here are the power levels I have for them
Perfect Cell(Suppressed against Goku): 18,050,000,000
Dabura: 19,800,000,000

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Vegeta said Kuririn's ki was massive after he got powered up by the Great Elder even though it wasn't even half his. Ki sensing isn't entirely reliable as fights.

Kuririn's ki was massive (compared to his ki before the power-up), but not greater than Vegeta's.

Goku said that Dabra was about as Cell, not Cell before absorbing #18, or Cell when he fought him. Just Cell. The latest Cell we saw was Super Perfect Cell, so that's the Cell he is talking about. Goku never said anything like "I was wrong, Dabra is weaker", but exactly the opposite. And we saw him fighting with Super Saiyan Gohan (he looked like Super Saiyan, no doubt about it) equally to the point that neither of them could cause any damage to each other. So, SS Gohan (Cell Games) > SS Gohan (Boo arc) = Dabra = SP Cell = SS2 Gohan (Cell Games) > SS Gohan (Cell Games) (?!)

No, Gohan can't be Super Saiyan. He looked exactly like he was though (his hairstyle & aura are the ones he displays in his Super Saiyan form, and the sparks are missing), but it doesn't fit with what was stated in the manga about Dabra's power.

So, Gohan was Super Saiyan 2, and Dabra equal with Super Perfect Cell.

[Kaboom]

No, Gohan can't be Super Saiyan. He looked exactly like he was though (his hairstyle & aura are the ones he displays in his Super Saiyan form, and the sparks are missing), but it doesn't fit with what was stated in the manga about Dabra's power.

It all fits together fine if you don't limit yourself with such needlessly strict rules like, "any reference = always at strongest." Larval Cell, first-form Cell, second-form Cell, initial Perfect Cell, Cell versus Goku, full-power Cell, and Super Perfect Cell are all still "Cell." We certainly can assume Goku's referring to just the general range of "Perfect Cell" if we want to.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It all fits together fine if you don't limit yourself with such needlessly strict rules like, "any reference = always at strongest." Larval Cell, first-form Cell, second-form Cell, initial Perfect Cell, Cell versus Goku, full-power Cell, and Super Perfect Cell are all still "Cell." We certainly can assume Goku's referring to just the general range of "Perfect Cell" if we want to.

If someone had said about someone in Boo arc "he is about as strong as Goku" would Goku from the Piccolo Daimao arc be an option? It's the same thing.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Vegeta said Kuririn's ki was massive after he got powered up by the Great Elder even though it wasn't even half his. Ki sensing isn't entirely reliable as fights.

Kuririn's ki was massive (compared to his ki before the power-up), but not greater than Vegeta's.

Goku said that Dabra was about as Cell, not Cell before absorbing #18, or Cell when he fought him. Just Cell. The latest Cell we saw was Super Perfect Cell, so that's the Cell he is talking about. Goku never said anything like "I was wrong, Dabra is weaker", but exactly the opposite. And we saw him fighting with Super Saiyan Gohan (he looked like Super Saiyan, no doubt about it) equally to the point that neither of them could cause any damage to each other. So, SS Gohan (Cell Games) > SS Gohan (Boo arc) = Dabra = SP Cell = SS2 Gohan (Cell Games) > SS Gohan (Cell Games) (?!)

No, Gohan can't be Super Saiyan. He looked exactly like he was though (his hairstyle & aura are the ones he displays in his Super Saiyan form, and the sparks are missing), but it doesn't fit with what was stated in the manga about Dabra's power.

So, Gohan was Super Saiyan 2, and Dabra equal with Super Perfect Cell.

Dude stop forcing your viewpoint. Just because the last Cell that was scene was Super Perfect does not mean he IS referring Super Perfect. Here is the line:
Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4
Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo
Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”
Kaioshin: “…Is-is that true, Son Goku?...”
Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”
He is just referring to Cell generally he doesn't have to referring to Super Perfect. Also Goku was impressed by Dabura's ability to use Magic:
Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”
Goku doesn't say anything about his attacks being strong he just referrers to his ability to use Magic as a strength. Gohan can so be a SSJ. His spikier hair, sharper face, sharper aura, and sparks, all the defining factors of a SSJ2, are not present on Gohan during the fight. He is likely just a SSJ.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Dude stop forcing your viewpoint.

I'm not forcing my viewpoint. I'm just saying what I believe.

Just because the last Cell that was scene was Super Perfect does not mean he IS referring Super Perfect.

IMO, it doesn't make sense to be referring to an older version of Cell. If he was talking about an older version of Cell, then he would be more specific.

Goku doesn't say anything about his attacks being strong he just referrers to his ability to use Magic as a strength.

I know. My point is that Goku didn't say that Dabra was weaker than he expecting, which would make him weaker than Cell.

Gohan can so be a SSJ. His spikier hair, sharper face, sharper aura, and sparks, all the defining factors of a SSJ2, are not present on Gohan during the fight. He is likely just a SSJ.

Did you read my whole post? I already said that Gohan looks exactly like a Super Saiyan and not like a Super Saiyan 2. I already said that I believe that Gohan is erroneously drawn as a Super Saiyan, while he should be drawn as a Super Saiyan 2.