Buff Boo

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Fox666
I Live Here
Posts: 4343
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Fox666 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:24 pm

deleted
Last edited by Fox666 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Darkprince410
I Live Here
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Fox666 wrote:I don't think the last part is true, just because he said "numerous tried" doesn't mean that there are some who didn't, it's well possible all of them tried.
I don't know. Him specifically saying numerous tried at least somewhat implies to me that there were some that didn't. If all had tried, why wouldn't he just say that all had? In any case though, the fact remains that his words leave it open that South may not have tried.

Undertaker
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:53 pm

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Undertaker » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:38 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:
Undertaker wrote:
CaBrPi wrote:What leads you to believe South Kaioshin is only as strong as Mastered Super Saiyan Cell Games-era Gohan?
He is way weaker than that because he failed to release the Z Sword.
As mentioned by myself and others in this topic, it wasn't stated that he ever tried to pull out the Z Sword.
Chapter: 471 (DBZ 277), P10.2-4
Kaioshin: “I want Gohan to use the Z Sword to defeat Majin Boo. Knowing him, he should definitely be able to use it.”
Kibito: “A-are you serious, Lord Kaioshin…?!! There’s no way that some human would be able to use the Z Sword!! That legendary sword which not merely myself, but numerous Kaioshins were utterly unable to handle…”
Kaioshin: “You were dead, Kibito, so you didn’t get to see Gohan here’s unbelievably tremendous power.”
All that implies is that many Kaioushin had tried removing it, but every one of them that had tried had failed. It doesn't say that every single one of them has tried to pull it out (and in fact the wording suggests that there are some that haven't).

Kaioshin was amazed at the Saiyans's power and FPSSjin Gohan should be stronger than any Kaioshin. It doesn't make sense that Kaioshin would be so shocked if Southren Kaioshin was stronger than the Saiyans. Plus, Southren Kaioshin was mentioned as one of the KAIOSHINS WHO CAN BEAT FRIEZA WITH ONE BLOW WHICH IMPLIES HE TRIED TO USE THE SWORD AS WELL AND THAT HE IS JUST STRONGER THAN FRIEZA.

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Buff Boo

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:13 pm

Mystic Gohan wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Mystic Gohan wrote:Why is Kid Boo's influence superior over South Kaioshin, but not Dai Kaioshin?
Eastern Kaioshin explained that Daikaioshins jolly and peaceful nature changed Buu. Buu's personality and power changed when absorbed Daikaioshin because his goodness was too much for Kid Buu to handle. Southern Kaioshin wasn't as good. You could also say that Southern Kaioshin hindered his ability resist the influence of the Kais.
You think South Kaioshin wouldn't be good? I doubt the protectors of the universe would even have an ounce of evil in them.
Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

User avatar
hleV
Banned
Posts: 3325
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:15 pm
Location: Lithuania

Re: Buff Boo

Post by hleV » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:33 pm

Undertaker wrote: Kaioshin was amazed at the Saiyans's power and FPSSjin Gohan should be stronger than any Kaioshin. It doesn't make sense that Kaioshin would be so shocked if Southren Kaioshin was stronger than the Saiyans.
It doesn't make sense for a Kaioshin to be shocked due to the fact that beings from the lower world had surpassed Kaioshin?
Plus, Southren Kaioshin was mentioned as one of the KAIOSHINS WHO CAN BEAT Freeza WITH ONE BLOW WHICH IMPLIES HE TRIED TO USE THE SWORD AS WELL
What? How does that imply anything?
AND THAT HE IS JUST STRONGER THAN Freeza.
They're all stronger than him. Kaioshin just mentioned that they're much stronger than Freeza because Freeza was the strongest being in the lower world that the Kaioshin at the time knew of.

Bando
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:51 pm

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Bando » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:40 pm

It's pretty obvious the Z-Sword was used to gauge the Kaioshins' strength. Gohan is stronger than South Kaioshin...

Anyway, since when has absorption ever been strictly addition? Cell absorbed humans and became extremely powerful but I doubt he absorbed hundreds of millions of people in only a couple days. And when he absorbs #17 and #18, his transformations aren't exactly additions.

User avatar
hleV
Banned
Posts: 3325
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:15 pm
Location: Lithuania

Re: Buff Boo

Post by hleV » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:54 pm

Bando wrote:It's pretty obvious the Z-Sword was used to gauge the Kaioshins' strength. Gohan is stronger than South Kaioshin...
Perhaps to gauge the power of the Kaioshin that were at that time alive, which makes Eastern Kaioshin only. I don't see why would the Southern Kaioshin be gauged as well, because he's not really relevant to the very story nor implied to have ever tried to pull out the Z-Sword. The only thing that can be used to gauge the Kaioshin overally is the Elder Kaioshin's claim that the new generation of Kaioshin is "stupid" (for not knowing about Potara's ability of fusion).
Anyway, since when has absorption ever been strictly addition? Cell absorbed humans and became extremely powerful but I doubt he absorbed hundreds of millions of people in only a couple days. And when he absorbs #17 and #18, his transformations aren't exactly additions.
#17 & #18 were essential for Cell's evolution to happen. Just like we eat and drink to have energy. We don't add the food and drinks' "power" to our own, we use the received energy to pull off things we otherwise couldn't.

Boo, on the other hand, "fuses" with his absorbees, receiving some of their traits, and can obviously use their power along with his own. He also gets their knowledge/intelligence, but he doesn't magically become more intelligent than the combination of him and his absorbees, so I don't see a reason to assume that his power does neither. Pure Evil Boo eating Mr. Boo is an exception, obviously, as a "real", obvious transformation took part.

User avatar
Darkprince410
I Live Here
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:10 pm

Undertaker wrote:

Kaioshin was amazed at the Saiyans's power and FPSSjin Gohan should be stronger than any Kaioshin. It doesn't make sense that Kaioshin would be so shocked if Southren Kaioshin was stronger than the Saiyans. Plus, Southren Kaioshin was mentioned as one of the KAIOSHINS WHO CAN BEAT Freeza WITH ONE BLOW WHICH IMPLIES HE TRIED TO USE THE SWORD AS WELL AND THAT HE IS JUST STRONGER THAN Freeza.
He was amazed by the Saiya-jins power because he was bewildered by the fact of "lesser" beings (those existing in the mortal plane) being so strong.
Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.4-5
Context: after Goku kills Yakon
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…”
Like everyone else, I don't see how Kaioushin comparing him and his fellow Kaioushin of that generation to Freeza automatically bunches him up with the same group of Kaioushin that had tried to remove the Z Sword in the past. There have been 16 generations of Kaioushin since the Z Sword's creation, which leaves plenty of time for there to have been others to have tried in that interim (enough to constitute "numerious"), and since there's nothing expressly said that points that South was one to attempt it, we can't automatically assume that he did.

User avatar
Gokuden
Regular
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:06 pm
Location: HFIL

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Gokuden » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:54 pm

When Buu absorbs good, it only makes him weaker, IIRC.
That time your teacher asked you to draw Cell in biology class.
This man is my hero:
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less about the fans a re-issue might alienate because if all they're concerned about is being able to scalp the people who were either unaware of the Dragon Boxes or couldn't afford them at the time, they're just leeches and deserve to have their greed backfire on them.

User avatar
Darkprince410
I Live Here
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:10 pm

Gokuden wrote:When Buu absorbs good, it only makes him weaker, IIRC.
The only statement regarding that is very vague, since the original Japanese line doesn't specify whether it was just the one absorption (Dai Kaioushin) or plural (both Kaioushin) that made him weaker.

User avatar
Gokuden
Regular
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:06 pm
Location: HFIL

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Gokuden » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:16 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:
Gokuden wrote:When Buu absorbs good, it only makes him weaker, IIRC.
The only statement regarding that is very vague, since the original Japanese line doesn't specify whether it was just the one absorption (Dai Kaioushin) or plural (both Kaioushin) that made him weaker.
I guess we'll never know until we ask Ooishi Naho. :)
That time your teacher asked you to draw Cell in biology class.
This man is my hero:
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less about the fans a re-issue might alienate because if all they're concerned about is being able to scalp the people who were either unaware of the Dragon Boxes or couldn't afford them at the time, they're just leeches and deserve to have their greed backfire on them.

Mystic Gohan
Regular
Posts: 586
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:58 am

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Mystic Gohan » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:57 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Mystic Gohan wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote: Eastern Kaioshin explained that Daikaioshins jolly and peaceful nature changed Buu. Buu's personality and power changed when absorbed Daikaioshin because his goodness was too much for Kid Buu to handle. Southern Kaioshin wasn't as good. You could also say that Southern Kaioshin hindered his ability resist the influence of the Kais.
You think South Kaioshin wouldn't be good? I doubt the protectors of the universe would even have an ounce of evil in them.
Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.
They are both pure, but one is not as pure?

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Buff Boo

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:40 pm

Mystic Gohan wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.
They are both pure, but one is not as pure?
Who is to say whether Southern Kaioshin is pure to begin with? Look at Rou Kaioshin, his lust for women is impure according to the Kintoun. Daikaioshin is made out to be innocent and pure. Nothing of the sort is said about Southern Kaioshin or any of the Kaioshin for that matter.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

User avatar
Darkprince410
I Live Here
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Darkprince410 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:07 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Mystic Gohan wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.
They are both pure, but one is not as pure?
Who is to say whether Southern Kaioshin is pure to begin with? Look at Rou Kaioshin, his lust for women is impure according to the Kintoun. Daikaioshin is made out to be innocent and pure. Nothing of the sort is said about Southern Kaioshin or any of the Kaioshin for that matter.
That impurity could be based in part on corruption of having fused with the witch though, not necessarily his original purity. We know practically nothing about Rou Kaioushin's nature before he fused with the witch, so his nature could have been far less lecherous.

User avatar
Super Saiyan Turlast x4
I Live Here
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:20 pm

What we do know is this:

1) Boo absorbed SK and his evil was still intact
2) Boo absorbed Dai Kaioshin and his evil was reduced

Not saying SK isn't pure, but it's clear the absorption had no good effect on Boo's soul, unlike Dai Kaioshin. All it did was increase his power and make him more physically menacing than he ever was.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

Mystic Gohan
Regular
Posts: 586
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:58 am

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Mystic Gohan » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:40 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Mystic Gohan wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Southern Kaioshin isn't AS good as Daikaio. If you notice, Eastern Kaioshin regards Daikaioshin as a more pure and innocent character. He is also the leader of the Kai's so I would imagine he is more pure than the others. Also like I said, Southern Kaioshin could have hindered Buu's ability to resist Kaioshin influence.
They are both pure, but one is not as pure?
Who is to say whether Southern Kaioshin is pure to begin with? Look at Rou Kaioshin, his lust for women is impure according to the Kintoun. Daikaioshin is made out to be innocent and pure. Nothing of the sort is said about Southern Kaioshin or any of the Kaioshin for that matter.
The protectors of the universe having even an ounce of evil would defeat the purpose no?

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Buff Boo

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:19 am

Mystic Gohan wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Who is to say whether Southern Kaioshin is pure to begin with? Look at Rou Kaioshin, his lust for women is impure according to the Kintoun. Daikaioshin is made out to be innocent and pure. Nothing of the sort is said about Southern Kaioshin or any of the Kaioshin for that matter.
The protectors of the universe having even an ounce of evil would defeat the purpose no?
No not really. You don't have to be absolutely pure to be overseers/protectors of the universe.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Bussani » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:13 am

Maybe it's more about personality and nature than whether someone's pure or not pure. I mean, they never said it was anything to do with purity--they said it was because Dai Kaioshin was "kind and gentle", as opposed to South Kaioshin's description of "strong and burly". Buu takes on traits from the people he absorbs, after all, so it wouldn't be weird if a strong and burly guy powered him up while a kind and gentle guy mellowed him out.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

Bando
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:51 pm

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Bando » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:33 am

hleV wrote:Perhaps to gauge the power of the Kaioshin that were at that time alive, which makes Eastern Kaioshin only. I don't see why would the Southern Kaioshin be gauged as well, because he's not really relevant to the very story nor implied to have ever tried to pull out the Z-Sword. The only thing that can be used to gauge the Kaioshin overally is the Elder Kaioshin's claim that the new generation of Kaioshin is "stupid" (for not knowing about Potara's ability of fusion).
It was used to gauge the strength of all previous Kaioshins. Sure there always exists the possibility that South Kaioshin didn't attempt to pull it but I doubt that's what the story is trying to tell us.

The act of pulling out the Z Sword was to show us the Z Senshi had surpassed the Kaioshins.
hleV wrote:#17 & #18 were essential for Cell's evolution to happen. Just like we eat and drink to have energy. We don't add the food and drinks' "power" to our own, we use the received energy to pull off things we otherwise couldn't.

Boo, on the other hand, "fuses" with his absorbees, receiving some of their traits, and can obviously use their power along with his own. He also gets their knowledge/intelligence, but he doesn't magically become more intelligent than the combination of him and his absorbees, so I don't see a reason to assume that his power does neither. Pure Evil Boo eating Mr. Boo is an exception, obviously, as a "real", obvious transformation took part.
I am aware of the differences in-between their fusions/transformations. It just doesn't change the fact that these combinations aren't pure addition. Cell absorbing a couple thousand humans is probably the best example.

User avatar
Fox666
I Live Here
Posts: 4343
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:18 am

Re: Buff Boo

Post by Fox666 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:08 am

deleted
Last edited by Fox666 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply