Base Saiyans and Freeza

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri May 17, 2013 9:52 pm

Cardle grave wrote:Base Goten or Trunks can semi rival Android 18 who 2 shot Trunks SSJ in android saga who is stronger then the trunks that Destroyed Machine freeza
18 was not going all out against the boys. She would not risk killing random humans which is what she thought they were. Also Battle of Gods which is written by Toriyama has Freeza>Base Saiyans.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by Draken » Fri May 17, 2013 9:53 pm

Cardle grave wrote:Base Goten or Trunks can semi rival Android 18 who 2 shot Trunks SSJ in android saga who is stronger then the trunks that Destroyed Machine freeza
They were barely touching her until they went SSJ. And they had the advantage of controlling separate arms and legs.

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by Cardle grave » Fri May 17, 2013 9:54 pm

If anything the boy where not going all out of 18 as there both where restricted. There is no proof that 18 held back.

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Fri May 17, 2013 9:56 pm

Cardle grave wrote:Base Goten or Trunks can semi rival Android 18 who 2 shot Trunks SSJ in android saga who is stronger then the trunks that Destroyed Machine freeza
And?
Cardle grave wrote:If anything the boy where not going all out of 18 as there both where restricted. There is no proof that 18 held back.
Right, because C-18 would go all out against a human.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Fri May 17, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri May 17, 2013 9:57 pm

Cardle grave wrote:If anything the boy where not going all out of 18 as there both where restricted. There is no proof that 18 held back.
Yes because 18 will go all out on humans and risk killing them and losing money. The boys went SSJ because they couldn't beat her in base. I have SSJ boys above 18, but base boys are definitely not.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by Cardle grave » Fri May 17, 2013 9:59 pm

Do you see Android trying to Kill SSJ vegeta when vsing him ?

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri May 17, 2013 10:01 pm

Cardle grave wrote:Do you see Android trying to Kill SSJ vegeta when vsing him ?
First thing Grammar check.

Also she had no intent for killing Vegeta in their first fight. If she wanted to she could have easily.

Lastly the creator himself put Base Saiyans below Freeza in the recent movie. That debunks anything you have to say.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by Cardle grave » Fri May 17, 2013 10:02 pm

Alright then if she didn't want to kill Vegeta then why would she want to kill Mighty mask. Not to mention you got Trunks and Goten Trying not to kill 18

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri May 17, 2013 10:04 pm

Cardle grave wrote:Alright then if she didn't want to kill Vegeta then why would she want to kill Mighty mask. Not to mention you got Trunks and Goten Trying not to kill 18
She didn't want to kill Mighty Mask. That would disqualify her from the tournament. And I will repeat this on more time.

Akira Toriyama, The Creator of Dragon Ball said Freeza>Base Saiyans in the latest movie. Your argument is invalid

Your arguing against the Creator. You can't win.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by Cardle grave » Fri May 17, 2013 10:08 pm

Well you are right, Whatever the Creator say is right Somehow

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri May 17, 2013 10:12 pm

dbzfan7 wrote: Akira Toriyama, The Creator of Dragon Ball said Freeza>Base Saiyans in the latest movie. Your argument is invalid
Your arguing against the Creator. You can't win.
Cardle grave wrote:Well you are right, Whatever the Creator say is right Somehow
Why are we capitalizing "creator?" Has Toryama achieved deity status now? :D
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri May 17, 2013 10:13 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote: Akira Toriyama, The Creator of Dragon Ball said Freeza>Base Saiyans in the latest movie. Your argument is invalid
Your arguing against the Creator. You can't win.
Cardle grave wrote:Well you are right, Whatever the Creator say is right Somehow
Why are we capitalizing "creator?" Has Toryama achieved deity status now? :D
Yes. He is Tori-bot in DB.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by Vertical » Fri May 17, 2013 10:13 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:Akira Toriyama, The Creator of Dragon Ball said Freeza>Base Saiyans in the latest movie. Your argument is invalid
Your arguing against the Creator. You can't win.
Just because his intent may have been to have the Base Saiyans below Freeza at that point in the series does not mean he did not contradict himself within the original release of the manga. If it was so clear cut there would not have been 20 years of discussion on the subject.

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Fri May 17, 2013 10:13 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Cardle grave wrote:Alright then if she didn't want to kill Vegeta then why would she want to kill Mighty mask. Not to mention you got Trunks and Goten Trying not to kill 18
She didn't want to kill Mighty Mask. That would disqualify her from the tournament. And I will repeat this on more time.

Akira Toriyama, The Creator of Dragon Ball said Freeza>Base Saiyans in the latest movie. Your argument is invalid

Your arguing against the Creator. You can't win.
Goku could simply be suppressed. I certainly think he was. Yeah I don't think Goku should be too far ahead of Freeza in any case but still.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri May 17, 2013 10:14 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Cardle grave wrote:Alright then if she didn't want to kill Vegeta then why would she want to kill Mighty mask. Not to mention you got Trunks and Goten Trying not to kill 18
She didn't want to kill Mighty Mask. That would disqualify her from the tournament. And I will repeat this on more time.

Akira Toriyama, The Creator of Dragon Ball said Freeza>Base Saiyans in the latest movie. Your argument is invalid

Your arguing against the Creator. You can't win.
Goku could simply be suppressed. I certainly think he was. Yeah I don't think Goku should be too far ahead of Freeza in any case but still.
I' not ruling that out. The point is he is around Freeza only.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri May 17, 2013 10:20 pm

Show me proof that Toriyama wrote that line.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Fri May 17, 2013 10:21 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Show me proof that Toriyama wrote that line.
BoG is a continuation of the manga so an exact line is unnecessary.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri May 17, 2013 10:30 pm

Yes, actually it is. Unless you have proof Toriyama wrote that, then this movie has no more validity than the movies that have the base saiyans stronger than Freeza.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri May 17, 2013 10:34 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Yes, actually it is. Unless you have proof Toriyama wrote that, then this movie has no more validity than the movies that have the base saiyans stronger than Freeza.
Because it doesn't fit what you want right. Toriyama wrote the story while Watanabe wrote the script.
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Re: Base Saiyans and Freeza

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Fri May 17, 2013 11:04 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Yes, actually it is. Unless you have proof Toriyama wrote that, then this movie has no more validity than the movies that have the base saiyans stronger than Freeza.
I tried thinking up an original story, imagining it as though [the manga's] serialization had continued.
Toriyama wrote the story and wrote it as if he continued his story. This movie is apart of the Manga's timeline.
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