SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

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SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Tue May 21, 2013 8:55 pm

Does Goku have to be stronger than SSJG3 Trunks for the whole half power scene to make sense or can Trunks still be stronger?
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Draken » Tue May 21, 2013 8:58 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:Does Goku have to be stronger than SSJG3 Trunks for the whole half power scene to make sense or can Trunks still be stronger?
I think he does. There would be no other rational explanation in my view as to why Trunks would be surprised at Goku's power. He already knows Goku had gotten a lot of RoSaT training, and Goku went in nearly as strong as/stronger than Vegeta who was stronger than Trunks who went out still weaker than Vegeta in equal forms. He respects Goku a shitton through all the legends he's heard of him and would probably expect gains as large as the ones he himself made. Then he feels Goku's (not 100% but 100% as far as he's concerned) power and goes "holy shit, he's gotten strong. Stronger than even my buffed up but slow as shit form." I don't see it playing out as "holy shit, he's gotten strong. Not as strong as me or my father despite him being the hero in the legends my mom told me who saved the world time and time again, but yea, strong."

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Vertical » Wed May 22, 2013 1:53 am

Personally, I believe that 50% Goku only needs to be roughly equal to the strength [Non-Buff] Cell had displayed up until that point to garner the reactions that he did, and the response he received from Korin.

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Bussani » Wed May 22, 2013 2:50 am

Vegeta had just got done explaining that Goku and Gohan wouldn't undergo another transformation--that they'd picked Super Saiyan as their best state. With that in mind, I think it's possible that the power they felt from Goku wasn't as high as Grade III Trunks. But it was surely higher than either Grade IIs and what they'd felt from Cell up to that point.
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Undertaker » Wed May 22, 2013 6:41 am

50% MSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks is a fact.

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Bussani » Wed May 22, 2013 6:56 am

Undertaker wrote:50% MSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks is a fact.
Would you like to explain what makes that a fact and not an opinion?
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Victorious » Wed May 22, 2013 8:22 am

It depends on if Goku's at half power during his warm up with Cell. Because Cell starts the Cell games off still at his "warm up" level he tooled Vegeta an Trunks in 10 days earlier. The power that manga wise didn't have any aura and he repeatably called his warm up level.

It's either

100% Goku >>> 50% Goku >> SSJG3 Trunks >> Cell [warm up] ~ Goku [warm up] >>> Super Vegeta

or

100% Goku >> SSJG3 Trunks >> Cell [warm up] ~ Goku [warm up / 50%] >>> Super Vegeta



IMO, Goku is not at 50% in the warm up. I think everyone thinks 50% Goku is Goku's full power and Krillin said after Cell said enough of the warm ups or something that now the real fight was starting, i view everyone thinking Goku is gonna power up and go 50% [which they think is full power] but then he goes 100% which blows their minds. 50% Goku also had an aura and warm up Goku did not so i don't think Goku was 50% in that warm up..he's just at some casual relaxed level IMO.

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Wed May 22, 2013 8:35 am

Honestly the way I see it is, Goku only has to be stronger than the suppressed Cell Trunks fought. Cell wouldn't be able to hit Goku with a bulked up form so everyone, naturally, would be impressed by Goku's power. Everyone at the Cell games also seems to be aware that Goku hasn't shown his full power up to this point as well so from where I stand Goku doesn't have to be stronger than SSJG3 Trunks up to this point.
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Kaboom » Wed May 22, 2013 9:26 am

It's possible, but not a necessity. I'd think Goku would have to at least be in that general ballpark to make such an impression, though. The power he showed off being similar to what Cell used against Trunks and Vegeta would work best, I think. It's clearly superior to Vegeta, and enough that everyone's uncertain who would win between Goku and Cell.

Trunks' power at Grade 3 is kind of a non-factor, if you ask me. The form he gained that power through is useless due to its energy drain and slowdown, and pretty much everyone would know it. So why bother comparing it to anything?
Undertaker wrote:50% FPSSJ Goku > SSJG3 Trunks is a fact.
Unless you can point out some previously-unknown line from the manga or bit from a guidebook which specifically says so, I'm going to have to say, "no, it isn't."
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Hitiro » Wed May 22, 2013 11:03 am

The impressiveness of Goku's power with SSJ is just that being in SSJ alone he has more power than second grade I believe. Vegeta and Trunks wouldn't be able to beat Semi-perfect Cell with just their SSJ forms, they would definitely need the graded ones. But Goku waltz along and demonstrates that he can be just as powerful in only his SSJ form. That is an impressive feat. It doesn't have to mean that Goku needs to have more power than what Trunks demonstrated to provide an impressive feat.

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Undertaker » Wed May 22, 2013 4:29 pm

Bussani wrote:
Undertaker wrote:50% MSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks is a fact.
Would you like to explain what makes that a fact and not an opinion?
10 days MSSJ Goku was keeping up with the Cell who beat Vegeta, meaning he should be higher than USSJ2 Trunks at 50%

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed May 22, 2013 10:25 pm

I have no problem with Goku being much stronger than Grade 3 Trunks at half power. And wouldn't argue with him being higher even in his resting state. I have him making huge gains in base in the ROSAT; in fact, I consider this to be Goku's single greatest improvement he ever made while training. I also have Grade 3 as an 85x multiplier, while most others seem to have it as equal or greater than SSJ2, so that influences my opinion as well.
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Bussani » Thu May 23, 2013 4:50 am

Undertaker wrote:10 days MSSJ Goku was keeping up with the Cell who beat Vegeta, meaning he should be higher than USSJ2 Trunks at 50%
Cell said Trunks had greatly surpassed him in raw power. If Goku was even stronger than that, with none of Grade III's weaknesses, he wouldn't just be keeping up with Cell--he'd be flattening him.
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Undertaker » Thu May 23, 2013 6:35 am

Bussani wrote:
Undertaker wrote:10 days MSSJ Goku was keeping up with the Cell who beat Vegeta, meaning he should be higher than USSJ2 Trunks at 50%
Cell said Trunks had greatly surpassed him in raw power. If Goku was even stronger than that, with none of Grade III's weaknesses, he wouldn't just be keeping up with Cell--he'd be flattening him.
He was keeping up with him in his resting state which is lower than his 50%

Cell Games FPSSJ Goku > 50% MSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks > Initial Perfect Cell ~ 10 Days Goku

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Bussani » Fri May 24, 2013 2:08 am

Undertaker wrote:He was keeping up with him in his resting state which is lower than his 50%
But that's also an assumption, not a fact.
Cell Games FPSSJ Goku > 50% MSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks > Initial Perfect Cell ~ 10 Days Goku
Why can't it be Cell Games FPSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks > 50% MSSJ Goku > Initial Perfect Cell ~ 10 Days Goku?
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Undertaker » Fri May 24, 2013 5:32 am

Bussani wrote:
Undertaker wrote:He was keeping up with him in his resting state which is lower than his 50%
But that's also an assumption, not a fact.
Cell Games FPSSJ Goku > 50% MSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks > Initial Perfect Cell ~ 10 Days Goku
Why can't it be Cell Games FPSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks > 50% MSSJ Goku > Initial Perfect Cell ~ 10 Days Goku?
Because USSJ2 Trunks surpasses Initial Perfect Cell and 10 days Goku. 50% MSSJ Goku is considerably stronger. Everyone thought it was Goku's full power and thought he might be able to win against Cell.

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Hitiro » Sun May 26, 2013 2:01 pm

Undertaker wrote:
Bussani wrote:
Undertaker wrote:He was keeping up with him in his resting state which is lower than his 50%
But that's also an assumption, not a fact.
Cell Games FPSSJ Goku > 50% MSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks > Initial Perfect Cell ~ 10 Days Goku
Why can't it be Cell Games FPSSJ Goku > USSJ2 Trunks > 50% MSSJ Goku > Initial Perfect Cell ~ 10 Days Goku?
Because USSJ2 Trunks surpasses Initial Perfect Cell and 10 days Goku. 50% MSSJ Goku is considerably stronger. Everyone thought it was Goku's full power and thought he might be able to win against Cell.
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P1.3, P2.1-3
Context: as Trunks uses his Super Saiyan Grade III power
Trunks: “What you’re about to see now…is my true power!!!”
Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…”
From what Cell says it sounds to me like USSJ2 Trunks was actually more powerful than Perfect Cell 100%. The reason Cell wasn't losing was because Trunks had no speed in the form. If you want to believe 50% SSJ Goku > USSJ2 then Goku should be walking all over Cell.

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sun May 26, 2013 2:10 pm

I always thought Cell was just referring to his current power there. When Goku releases all of his power, Krillin says Goku's Chi is "immeasurable" and beyond all of them. Krillin was also convinced Trunks would beat Cell and was surprised that he didn't. If Trunks is stronger than full-power Cell, then Goku's power wouldn't be impressive or worth noting at that point. Heck, even Trunks was astonished at Goku's display of power. I think Cell's full-power is in another league compared to any of the Super Saiyans.
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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Hitiro » Sun May 26, 2013 3:36 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I always thought Cell was just referring to his current power there. When Goku releases all of his power, Krillin says Goku's Chi is "immeasurable" and beyond all of them. Krillin was also convinced Trunks would beat Cell and was surprised that he didn't. If Trunks is stronger than full-power Cell, then Goku's power wouldn't be impressive or worth noting at that point. Heck, even Trunks was astonished at Goku's display of power. I think Cell's full-power is in another league compared to any of the Super Saiyans.
I think Tunks was impressed by Goku's power because he demonstrated ki comparable to Super Vegeta and Super Trunks as just a regular SSJ. It wasn't to do with the power alone but rather the transformation he was using to demonstrate the power. If Goku came along and is nearly as strong as SSJ2 Gohan as just a SSJ I'm pretty sure people would be impressed even though he isn't as strong as SSJ2 Gohan in SSJ. It would still be an impressive feat.

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Re: SSJG3 Trunks and FPSSJ Goku(Half)

Post by Draken » Sun May 26, 2013 3:38 pm

Hitiro wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I always thought Cell was just referring to his current power there. When Goku releases all of his power, Krillin says Goku's Chi is "immeasurable" and beyond all of them. Krillin was also convinced Trunks would beat Cell and was surprised that he didn't. If Trunks is stronger than full-power Cell, then Goku's power wouldn't be impressive or worth noting at that point. Heck, even Trunks was astonished at Goku's display of power. I think Cell's full-power is in another league compared to any of the Super Saiyans.
I think Tunks was impressed by Goku's power because he demonstrated ki comparable to Super Vegeta and Super Trunks as just a regular SSJ. It wasn't to do with the power alone but rather the transformation he was using to demonstrate the power. If Goku came along and is nearly as strong as SSJ2 Gohan as just a SSJ I'm pretty sure people would be impressed even though he isn't as strong as SSJ2 Gohan in SSJ. It would still be an impressive feat.
How would they know he's only a SSJ though? They weren't physically there watching, they only sensed his power.

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