Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

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Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by Legendary Saiya-Jin » Fri May 31, 2013 12:51 pm

Do you think Ultimate Gohan could use Kaiou-ken if he was taught it by Gokuu?

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri May 31, 2013 12:52 pm

I definitely think he could use it. Whether or not he would survive the attempt in a living body is another questions :P
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Fri May 31, 2013 12:53 pm

Sure, why not? It honestly begs the question, why the heck didn't he teach everyone Kaioken?
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Fri May 31, 2013 12:57 pm

Coulda sworn I've seen him use it in movie 2. I saw like a glimmer of a red aura while he was blocking a blast from the old guy. Maybe not?
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:05 pm

If he did he would not know where to place him. All of his power from transformations is in base so he should be able to use Kaioken on top of it.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by hleV » Fri May 31, 2013 2:12 pm

No. Kaio-ken is not a ritual which magically grants power, it's a ki technique which allows the user to use more of his hidden power. It draws the power from the same "place" Super Saiyan does, and "Ultimate" Gohan already has all that power unlocked.

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri May 31, 2013 2:26 pm

hleV wrote:No. Kaio-ken is not a ritual which magically grants power, it's a ki technique which allows the user to use more of his hidden power. It draws the power from the same "place" Super Saiyan does, and "Ultimate" Gohan already has all that power unlocked.
That is never stated. All that is said about Kaio-Ken is that it amplifies the user's power. Nothing says anything about drawing on the user's hidden potential.
Kaio-Ken
First Appearance: Chapter 226
Category: ki manipulation
People: Son Goku
Special Characteristics: A technique that instantly amplifies the ki inside one’s body, multiplying all that person’s abilities, including power, speed, defense, etc. Since it makes one capable of utilizing battle power many times their own ability, it is extraordinarily effective during battles with formidable opponents. However, because it is impossible to multiply excessively far beyond one’s abilities, experimenting with an unreasonably high Kaio-Ken might destroy one’s own body. When the user’s battle power is 8,000, their limit is x2, and when they are at 3 million the limit is x10. However, since real battles are harsh, Goku often had to use Kaio-Ken above those limits. The Kaio-Ken’s designer is the North Kaio, but Goku was the first person to be able to master it. (Daizenshuu 2, p.212/ Daizenshuu 4, p.113)
Anime: The first movie it was used in was “The World’s Strongest Guy”, when it was shown during the battle with Dr. Uiro (Daizenshuu 6, p.52). In “Super Decisive Battle for the Earth”, Goku challenged Tullece with Kaio-Ken x10 (Daizenshuu 6, p.60). In the movies after that, the “~x” number mark wasn’t used.
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri May 31, 2013 2:32 pm

hleV wrote:No. Kaio-ken... is a ki technique which allows the user to use more of his hidden power.
Wrong. It amplifies ones power, like every other technique does.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by Godo » Fri May 31, 2013 2:34 pm

I thought that Kaio-ken is a technique that makes you able to use more of your reserves at once.

As an example, Goku at 8,000 would have all in all maybe 50,000 in ki left usable in his body. But his body can only handle usage of 16,000 at once. He can normally fight with the power of 8,000, but to attack with the power of 16,000, he needs to take time and charge the attack.
Using Kaio-ken, he forces out his power reserves out at once and also forces his body to handle the energy.
When using Kaio-ken x 3 against Vegeta, he went above the output his body could naturally handle, so he got hurt.

And also, this is why Kaio-ken is dangerous and hard to use. You have to make sure that you focus the power, or it will backfire and you'll explode.

So by using the power reserve theory, Ultimate Gohan could have as well been able to use it.

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Fri May 31, 2013 2:45 pm

hleV wrote:No. Kaio-ken is not a ritual which magically grants power, it's a ki technique which allows the user to use more of his hidden power. It draws the power from the same "place" Super Saiyan does, and "Ultimate" Gohan already has all that power unlocked.
Where the hell did you get that idea :eh: ?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by hleV » Fri May 31, 2013 2:58 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:
hleV wrote:No. Kaio-ken is not a ritual which magically grants power, it's a ki technique which allows the user to use more of his hidden power. It draws the power from the same "place" Super Saiyan does, and "Ultimate" Gohan already has all that power unlocked.
Where the hell did you get that idea :eh: ?
Logic.

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Fri May 31, 2013 2:59 pm

hleV wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
hleV wrote:No. Kaio-ken is not a ritual which magically grants power, it's a ki technique which allows the user to use more of his hidden power. It draws the power from the same "place" Super Saiyan does, and "Ultimate" Gohan already has all that power unlocked.
Where the hell did you get that idea :eh: ?
Logic.
Right because this is totally a logical conclusion. The attack dictionary merely says it's a Ki amplification technique.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri May 31, 2013 3:00 pm

hleV wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
hleV wrote:No. Kaio-ken is not a ritual which magically grants power, it's a ki technique which allows the user to use more of his hidden power. It draws the power from the same "place" Super Saiyan does, and "Ultimate" Gohan already has all that power unlocked.
Where the hell did you get that idea :eh: ?
Logic.
Why couldn't it "magically grant power?" It was a godly technique after all.
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri May 31, 2013 3:01 pm

hleV wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:
hleV wrote:No. Kaio-ken is not a ritual which magically grants power, it's a ki technique which allows the user to use more of his hidden power. It draws the power from the same "place" Super Saiyan does, and "Ultimate" Gohan already has all that power unlocked.
Where the hell did you get that idea :eh: ?
Logic.
Manga:

Chapter: 227 (DBZ 33), P1.3, P2.1
Kuririn: “Guh…Goku, how’d you do that? Was that something you were taught by Lord Kaio?
Goku: “Yeah. It’s called Kaio-Ken!”
Goku: “You control all the ki in your body…momentarily amplifying it. If you get it right, your power, speed, destructive force, and defensive force all become many times greater…”
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by hleV » Fri May 31, 2013 3:01 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote: Why couldn't it "magically grant power?" It was a godly technique after all.
It's under a category of "ki manipulation". I don't and never will believe that one can get power from nowhere.
Last edited by hleV on Fri May 31, 2013 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri May 31, 2013 3:03 pm

hleV wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: Why couldn't it "magically grant power?" It was a godly technique after all.
It's under a category of "ki manipulation".
And magic can't manipulate ki? Babidi unlocking Vegeta's potential would have to disagree. And I'm not saying that Kaio-ken is magic, only that it can amplify ki without drawing on hidden potential.
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri May 31, 2013 3:04 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Why couldn't it "magically grant power?" It was a godly technique after all.
Because a) it was taught to Goku, not granted, and b) the manga already states that it amplifies the ki, no magic, no dormant power.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by hleV » Fri May 31, 2013 3:06 pm

I don't think we have a similar understanding of the word "amplification".
Last edited by hleV on Fri May 31, 2013 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri May 31, 2013 3:07 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Why couldn't it "magically grant power?" It was a godly technique after all.
Because a) it was taught to Goku, not granted, and b) the manga already states that it amplifies the ki, no magic, no dormant power.
I'm talking about the technique itself, not him learning the technique. And by "magically grant power" I meant that the technique could amplify his ki without drawing on his hidden potential.
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Re: Could Ultimate Gohan use Kaio-ken?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri May 31, 2013 3:08 pm

hleV wrote:I don't think we have a similar understanding of the word "amplification".
What's yours?
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Why couldn't it "magically grant power?" It was a godly technique after all.
Because a) it was taught to Goku, not granted, and b) the manga already states that it amplifies the ki, no magic, no dormant power.
I'm talking about the technique itself, not him learning the technique. And by "magically grant power" I meant that the technique could amplify his ki without drawing on his hidden potential.
Ah, OK.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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