Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Ketchup_Revenge
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Apt 4A, 2311 No. Los Robles
Contact:

Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Ketchup_Revenge » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:53 pm

This is a bit random, but I was crunching some numbers today with multipliers for SSj transformations. Anyone who knows me knows that I don't believe in multipliers, but here goes.

50x for the Super Saiyan multiplier seems ridiculously high for the feats performed later in the series when comparing base and SSj. And as far as I understand it, 50x was never even stated as a fact, or even it being a multiplier at all. However, when comparing SSj to the higher grades and FPSSj, a pattern started to emerge based on my understanding of the power ups.

SSjT2= 1.33x SSj
SSjT3= 1.66x SSj
FPSSj= 2x SSj

It was stated in a guidebook that I recall in which is said that SSj2 was 2x SSj, but that was one thing that always confused me because it seemed so low. However, there's a possible explanation to this. SSj and FPSSj are often used interchangeably, and aren't actually considered in-universe as different forms. As far as Goku seems to refer to it as, they are the same thing. So it's possible that SSj2=2x FPSSj, making it 4x original SSj. This set up a flag considering that we know that SSj3 and SSj2 also have a 4x gap.

So with this in mind, I began thinking that it was possible for SSj to only be 4x base by the time that the characters reach SSj2. So...
SSj= 4x base
FPSSj=8x base (or 2x SSj)
SSj2= 4x SSj
SSj3=4x SSj2

Also the 8x base is fairly close to Toriyama's later claim that SSj might have been only 10x base. And since he also uses SSj and FPSSj interchangeably, just like the characters in the series do, it seems safe to assume that he was talking about the SSj that we see in the Boo arc, which all characters are strongly suggested to have FPSSj.
I wipe it off the tile, the light is brighter this time, everything is 3D blasphemy.
My eyes are red and gold, the hair is standing straight up, this is not the way I picture me.
I can't control my shakes, how the hell did I get here? Something about this, so very wrong.
I have to laugh out loud, I wish I didn't like this. Is it a dream or a memory?

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:04 pm

I honestly don't get this thread. If you don't believe the official multipliers, why would we think that the multipliers for your numbers change? Isn't that up to you to decide?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10260
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:10 pm

As I see it, the only time that the 2x multiplier for SSJ2 doesn't really work is the Gohan vs Cell fight. However, that's easily explained if you think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2.
In the Buu Arc, though, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in power from SSJ1 to SSJ2. When Goku shows Buu and Babidi the forms, they just laugh at SSJ2, saying that it's not enough. But then he shocks them with SSJ3. The official multipliers fit this scene pretty well.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
Ketchup_Revenge
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Apt 4A, 2311 No. Los Robles
Contact:

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Ketchup_Revenge » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:13 pm

The reason why I don't believe in multipliers is because everything that we know about Saiyan power growth goes against that theory. Vegeta said that "(Saiyans) can't be reduced to numbers", and what do you think that multipliers are? Numbers.
Also there's the fact that SSj train in SSj, while it's obvious that if their increases were from base power multipliers, that the only way to increase their power would be to get stronger in base. Why would they waste time training in SSj?
The biggest contradiction in my head is the fact that SSj comes from latent ki, which is different for everyone. So, even though Goku's could be 50x, that doesn't mean that everyone else's is as well.

EDIT: I know I'm confusing people with this thread then, but for argument's sake, multipliers are much easier to go with, so that's the whole reason behind this.
I wipe it off the tile, the light is brighter this time, everything is 3D blasphemy.
My eyes are red and gold, the hair is standing straight up, this is not the way I picture me.
I can't control my shakes, how the hell did I get here? Something about this, so very wrong.
I have to laugh out loud, I wish I didn't like this. Is it a dream or a memory?

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8793
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:18 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:As I see it, the only time that the 2x multiplier for SSJ2 doesn't really work is the Gohan vs Cell fight. However, that's easily explained if you think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2.
In the Buu Arc, though, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in power from SSJ1 to SSJ2. When Goku shows Buu and Babidi the forms, they just laugh at SSJ2, saying that it's not enough. But then he shocks them with SSJ3. The official multipliers fit this scene pretty well.
Why doesn't it work for Cell's fight?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:20 pm

There is nothing wrong with the current multipliers. My power levels work just fine with them.
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:As I see it, the only time that the 2x multiplier for SSJ2 doesn't really work is the Gohan vs Cell fight. However, that's easily explained if you think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2.
In the Buu Arc, though, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in power from SSJ1 to SSJ2. When Goku shows Buu and Babidi the forms, they just laugh at SSJ2, saying that it's not enough. But then he shocks them with SSJ3. The official multipliers fit this scene pretty well.
Why doesn't it work for Cell's fight?
It does but it's hard to fit for some people.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10260
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:20 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:As I see it, the only time that the 2x multiplier for SSJ2 doesn't really work is the Gohan vs Cell fight. However, that's easily explained if you think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2.
In the Buu Arc, though, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in power from SSJ1 to SSJ2. When Goku shows Buu and Babidi the forms, they just laugh at SSJ2, saying that it's not enough. But then he shocks them with SSJ3. The official multipliers fit this scene pretty well.
Why doesn't it work for Cell's fight?
Gohan is said to have been down to less than half his power after being struck by Cell's attack. This would make him weaker than he was as a SSJ1, and he wouldn't have been able to block Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha. That's why I think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2 here.
Ketchup_Revenge wrote:The reason why I don't believe in multipliers is because everything that we know about Saiyan power growth goes against that theory. Vegeta said that "(Saiyans) can't be reduced to numbers", and what do you think that multipliers are? Numbers.
Also there's the fact that SSj train in SSj, while it's obvious that if their increases were from base power multipliers, that the only way to increase their power would be to get stronger in base. Why would they waste time training in SSj?
The biggest contradiction in my head is the fact that SSj comes from latent ki, which is different for everyone. So, even though Goku's could be 50x, that doesn't mean that everyone else's is as well.
Personally, I don't think the numbers are exact. So I think that a SSJ1 would be roughly 50x stronger, not exactly 50x, depending on the user's condition.
Well, at first we only see Goku train in SSJ, and he seems to be aware of the fact that their are levels beyond it, so maybe he's trying to attain that. I would guess that's why Vegeta and Trunks presumably trained in the form in the ROSAT, they would have felt they couldn't achieve the higher levels of SSJ without training in the form. Goku and Gohan train in the form to master it, and presumably Vegeta and Trunks do the same. Afterwards, maybe they train in SSJ to maintain the FPSSJ state? Or possibly, since SSJ, even when mastered, still puts stress on the body, they use that stress to allow for more difficult training?
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
Draken
Banned
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:01 am

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Draken » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:21 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:As I see it, the only time that the 2x multiplier for SSJ2 doesn't really work is the Gohan vs Cell fight. However, that's easily explained if you think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2.
In the Buu Arc, though, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in power from SSJ1 to SSJ2. When Goku shows Buu and Babidi the forms, they just laugh at SSJ2, saying that it's not enough. But then he shocks them with SSJ3. The official multipliers fit this scene pretty well.
Why doesn't it work for Cell's fight?
Because for some people the jump in powers seem way too low, and because Gohan said he lost over half his ki yet was still able to rival SPC.

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:23 pm

I would also like to point out that the only the anime shows little difference between base and SSJ but I like to think Goku can put some of his SSJ energy into his base form. His RSSJ form makes me think this is possible. As for Gohan's statement, it's called having little faith and exaggerating his disadvantage.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8793
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:24 pm

Gohan is said to have been down to less than half his power after being struck by Cell's attack. This would make him weaker than he was as a SSJ1, and he wouldn't have been able to block Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha. That's why I think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2 here.
"Less than half" could simply be an exaggeration from a demoralized defeatist.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
Draken
Banned
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:01 am

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Draken » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:26 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Gohan is said to have been down to less than half his power after being struck by Cell's attack. This would make him weaker than he was as a SSJ1, and he wouldn't have been able to block Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha. That's why I think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2 here.
"Less than half" could simply be an exaggeration.
You could say that for any feat in the series then. The way I see it, unless it's shown to be an exaggeration or a character says otherwise, what AT tells his characters to say are what he means for them to say.

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:29 pm

Draken wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Gohan is said to have been down to less than half his power after being struck by Cell's attack. This would make him weaker than he was as a SSJ1, and he wouldn't have been able to block Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha. That's why I think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2 here.
"Less than half" could simply be an exaggeration.
You could say that for any feat in the series then. The way I see it, unless it's shown to be an exaggeration or a character says otherwise, what AT tells his characters to say are what he means for them to say.
It's pretty easy to believe that breaking Gohan's arm wouldn't drop Gohan's power to less than half.... Also, what feat? Statements count as feats now?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10260
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:30 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Gohan is said to have been down to less than half his power after being struck by Cell's attack. This would make him weaker than he was as a SSJ1, and he wouldn't have been able to block Super Perfect Cell's Kamehameha. That's why I think Gohan got a rage boost on top of SSJ2 here.
"Less than half" could simply be an exaggeration.
Possibly, but I prefer to take statements at face value unless they are contradicted. At the time, the multipliers didn't exist yet, so you have to find ways to make them work for some fights, like this one.
Regardless, I have Super Perfect Cell's transformation mimic the SS2 state, in that it doubles his power from his perfect state. Since he was already stronger than Gohan then, he should be stronger than Gohan after they both transformed as well, unless Gohan got something else on top of SSJ2.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
Draken
Banned
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:01 am

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Draken » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:31 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote: It's pretty easy to believe that breaking Gohan's arm wouldn't drop Gohan's power to less than half.... Also, what feat? Statements count as feats now?
Feat, statement, whatever I'm sure you understood what I meant. Why? He took a blast meant to kill Vegeta while unguarded to the side, and was bleeding pretty badly... worse than any other character in the series thus far what it seemed. And yes. Unless you're going to follow the old Amuro Ray statement of "Goku was lying when he said Super Buu > Kid Buu just because."

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13006
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:33 pm

Draken wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote: It's pretty easy to believe that breaking Gohan's arm wouldn't drop Gohan's power to less than half.... Also, what feat? Statements count as feats now?
Feat, statement, whatever I'm sure you understood what I meant. Why? He took a blast meant to kill Vegeta while unguarded to the side, and was bleeding pretty badly... worse than any other character in the series thus far what it seemed. And yes. Unless you're going to follow the old Amuro Ray statement of "Goku was lying when he said Super Buu > Kid Buu just because."
Do not speak of it. I don't need to see that crap again.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10260
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:34 pm

Draken wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote: It's pretty easy to believe that breaking Gohan's arm wouldn't drop Gohan's power to less than half.... Also, what feat? Statements count as feats now?
Feat, statement, whatever I'm sure you understood what I meant. Why? He took a blast meant to kill Vegeta while unguarded to the side, and was bleeding pretty badly... worse than any other character in the series thus far what it seemed. And yes. Unless you're going to follow the old Amuro Ray statement of "Goku was lying when he said Super Buu > Kid Buu just because."
shhh... don't say that too loudly....

Yeah, I figure that statements are there for a reason.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13006
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:36 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Draken wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote: It's pretty easy to believe that breaking Gohan's arm wouldn't drop Gohan's power to less than half.... Also, what feat? Statements count as feats now?
Feat, statement, whatever I'm sure you understood what I meant. Why? He took a blast meant to kill Vegeta while unguarded to the side, and was bleeding pretty badly... worse than any other character in the series thus far what it seemed. And yes. Unless you're going to follow the old Amuro Ray statement of "Goku was lying when he said Super Buu > Kid Buu just because."
shhh... don't say that too loudly....

Yeah, I figure that statements are there for a reason.
Exactly. I don't see no reason to have that be said just for it to mean nothing.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

User avatar
Draken
Banned
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:01 am

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by Draken » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:37 pm

I'm sorry guys, maybe that was a bit too extreme <3. You get my point though. AT wouldn't put statements in there unless that's what he meant. He's not a deep, convoluted writer. If he says Cell can blow up the Solar System, Snake Way is 1 million kilometers, Goku was lifting ten tons on a world that didn't have Earth's gravity, etc, he says them because that's directly what he means.

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13006
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:39 pm

Draken wrote:I'm sorry guys, maybe that was a bit too extreme <3. You get my point though. AT wouldn't put statements in there unless that's what he meant. He's not a deep, convoluted writer. If he says Cell can blow up the Solar System, Snake Way is 1 million kilometers, Goku was lifting ten tons on a world that didn't have Earth's gravity, etc, he says them because that's directly what he means.
Pretty much until contradicted by another statement. Such as Bootenks saying he is the strongest Boo and then Boohan claiming the same thing.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Is SSj only 4x base later on?

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:41 pm

Draken wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote: It's pretty easy to believe that breaking Gohan's arm wouldn't drop Gohan's power to less than half.... Also, what feat? Statements count as feats now?
Feat, statement, whatever I'm sure you understood what I meant. Why? He took a blast meant to kill Vegeta while unguarded to the side, and was bleeding pretty badly... worse than any other character in the series thus far what it seemed. And yes. Unless you're going to follow the old Amuro Ray statement of "Goku was lying when he said Super Buu > Kid Buu just because."
It's not a blatant lie though. It's like you've never heard of an exaggeration =/. He is convinced that he can't win so he is exaggeration his injuries. Really? Gohan was bleeding worse than anyone in the series? Go tell that to Goku and Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga :lol: . Unguarded or not, Gohan wouldn't lose more than half his power because he had a broken arm. You cannot take whatever someone says literally all the time.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

Post Reply