Theories for how Boo's absorption works

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BejitaSama
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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by BejitaSama » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:10 am

No. It also contradicts other statements made by Goku (he directly said that Gotenks would be stronger than him), statements by Piccolo, and statements by Super Buu. In fact it contradicts just about everything.
Again, Gokû never saw Gotenks, he just evaluate his level. It's a gamble. And I'm sorry, but refering to Piccolo...The guy thought that Gotenks in his base form could take Evil Buu ! He never compares Gotenks to Gokû, never admit that Gotenks could beat Majin Buu (fat) clearly, he's just following Gokû's hope in the boys. They're his only hope. And the fact shows us that Gotenks was destroy in his base form by Majin Buu (fat), and needed SSJ3 to handle Evil Buu.
It says that only Dai Kaioshin weakened him... and even then, not by much.
You're turning things as you want : it's never say that ONLY Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu. They just not mention South Kaioshin, which have just one line text in the manga.
I'm not basing it off that. I'm basing it on Goku saying that Gotenks could beat Fat Buu with only Super Saiyan, Piccolo sensing Gotenks and seemingly agreeing that he can beat Fat Buu, and Piccolo sensing Vegeta as a SS2, seeing him get whooped, sensing SS Gotenks (pre-ROSAT), and STILL saying that Gotenks can succeed where Vegeta failed. You have to assume every single character in the Buu Saga is completely brain dead for your theory to work.
Not at all. As I say above, we can't say that all of this is sure. And Piccolo never told that Gotenks pre-ROSAT could beat Majin Buu (fat). He's impressed by him, but that's all. Again, the fact that he thinks that Gotenks in base could beat Evil Buu shows that he don't understand what's going on.
You're not using any logic though. You're ignoring every statement about the power of Buu and just saying "Nuh uh, everyone was lying for no reason".
I disagree. IMO, you are intrepreting things, or according a lot of importance to statments that aren't valid. I'm basing on a logic : the Buu's forms and his history.
ccording to the Daizenshuu, Dai Kaioshin reduced Buu's power because of his gentle heart, not because he was a Kaioshin. At least according to the old Kanzentai translation.
Again, 2 Kaioshins aren't compatible with Buu + the Bejito thing. It makes 3 elements that show a special Kaioshin effect on Buu. It's never stated that a Kaioshin could increase Buu power. That's a complete theory.
Magic.
Oh yes, that's it, magic ! The fusion that can't end, end in Buu. Strange !
Bullshit. He just used that as a conversation point to bring up dance fusion (which isn't permanent, btw) so he could suggest it to the boys.
Big bullshit. Because he wanted to fuse with Bejita or Gohan. Not make the boys fuse. The idea is brought by Popo. So, he prefers fuse to use his SSJ3. Even again a monster that he could beat.
You do know that there's absolutely zero evidence that South Kaioshin ever tried to pull that sword, right?
You do know that there's absolutely zero evidence that South Kaioshin increased Buu power ?
All along the saga, Toriyama show us how Kaioshins are nothing compared to Goku's friends.
That's nowhere near the best statement for him. The best statement for him suggests that he's around a thousand times stronger than Fatty. The best direct statement for him simply states that he's waaaaaaaay stronger than Goku. Also, he never put out his full power until after Gotenks went Super Saiyan 3; previously he was still suppressed enough that SS Gotenks could actually damage him.
But what best statment ? It's YOUR best statment, not at all a fact. Nothing in the manga suggests that EVil is 100x stronger than the fat, IMO it's just ridiculous. The only statment on his power is "his body is more adapted to fight", "he's greater". I'm sorry, but ther's not statments that can make think that he's 100x stronger, even in dreams. IMO, it's the contrary.

I don't contradict 95% of the manga as you say, but you're intrepretation. Which is no more valid than mine, sorry.
Last edited by BejitaSama on Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Goku's statments in Buu saga :
" I can't beat Fat Buu because Bejita didn't, we were equal "
" I don't think I could beat Fat Buu in SSJ3"
" We can't beat Super Buu ! "
" Okay, I admit : I could beat Fat Buu "

Morality : Goku was drunk all along the saga. Or Toriyama was.
Goku developed a lie disease in the other world.
Goku sometimes forgets ha has SSJ3.
Toriyama never choose his real Level until the final fight against Kid Buu.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by TheGmGoken » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:19 am

Off Topic(Sorry) ^ I like how he uses the original spelling of Vegeta( Bejita) yet he doesn't say the other characters original spelling such as Boo or Pikkoro

On Topic: I think Goku had faith that they would train and become stronger than him. As SSJ3 > Base Gotenks(Untrained). It is possible that GOku wanted them to gain some more experience first. Plus who know GOtenks would be cocky and goofy.
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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by BejitaSama » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:26 am

Off Topic(Sorry) ^ I like how he uses the original spelling of Vegeta( Bejita) yet he doesn't say the other characters original spelling such as Boo or Pikkoro
Wha'ts the aim of your comment ? Why don't you tell this to me instead of talking at the 3rd person as I wasn't here ? I bother you ? You think I'm ridiculous ?
And to respond to you, maybe because that's an habit that I have, and that a lot of French have. And the original spelling for Boo is Buu, which I use.
You know, we have Dragon Ball since 1989 in France, we also have people who knows the manga and speak Japenese, we're not so stupid.
Goku's statments in Buu saga :
" I can't beat Fat Buu because Bejita didn't, we were equal "
" I don't think I could beat Fat Buu in SSJ3"
" We can't beat Super Buu ! "
" Okay, I admit : I could beat Fat Buu "

Morality : Goku was drunk all along the saga. Or Toriyama was.
Goku developed a lie disease in the other world.
Goku sometimes forgets ha has SSJ3.
Toriyama never choose his real Level until the final fight against Kid Buu.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:01 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Buu was clearly toying with Goku and Vegeta, and the latter got wrecked. South Kaioshin could make Buu panic and damage him at least, so he's clearly SS3 tier in the anime. Though anime Good Buu is even stronger than him. He seemed closer to Kid Buu then he was in the manga.
Going by anime performances, Vegeta is stronger than South Kaioshin. Kid Buu injured South Kaioshin badly with just one kick in his head, while Vegeta took four hits to get down, if I'm not wrong. Then, why Kid Buu absorbed South Kaioshin, who was supposed to be inferior to him? Because Toriyama drew a Buff-like form and that needed some explanation in the plot. Kid Buu wasn't afraid of South Kaioshin's strenght as he swallowed a ki blast from him. The impression is that South Kaioshin is giving a good fight by even countering a ki blast from Kid Buu and managing some strategy to get him, but then Buu suddenly proved to be on a whole different level. Character performances are good issues, but we have to be careful to take conclusions from them.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:30 pm

Again, Gokû never saw Gotenks, he just evaluate his level. It's a gamble. And I'm sorry, but refering to Piccolo...The guy thought that Gotenks in his base form could take Evil Buu ! He never compares Gotenks to Gokû, never admit that Gotenks could beat Majin Buu (fat) clearly, he's just following Gokû's hope in the boys. They're his only hope. And the fact shows us that Gotenks was destroy in his base form by Majin Buu (fat), and needed SSJ3 to handle Evil Buu.
Piccolo never thought that base Gotenks could take Evil Buu (who was implied to be suppressed anyway). He was muttering "oh please let there be a miracle..." and later admitted that he didn't even think that Super Saiyan Gotenks would be able to take this new Buu.

No, he's not. He senses SS Gotenks and SS2 Vegeta. He even gets a demonstration of Gotenks' speed. He also senses Fat Buu and SS3 Goku, and is the only one who knows that Goku could have beaten Fat Buu. Yet you think that he sensed someone weaker than Majin Vegeta and still said he could win.

DO you hate Piccolo? Do you think he's a complete idiot and forgot how to sense ki for absolutely no reason?
You're turning things as you want : it's never say that ONLY Dai Kaioshin weakened Buu. They just not mention South Kaioshin, which have just one line text in the manga.
Why the hell would the Daiz only say that Dai weakened Buu if they both did? And yes, they mention South Kaioshin, and don't say anything about him weakening Buu.
Not at all. As I say above, we can't say that all of this is sure. And Piccolo never told that Gotenks pre-ROSAT could beat Majin Buu (fat). He's impressed by him, but that's all. Again, the fact that he thinks that Gotenks in base could beat Evil Buu shows that he don't understand what's going on.
He had no problem with Gotenks fighting Fat Buu, even though he sensed SS3 Goku and was still under the impression that Fat Buu was above that. So yes, he did.

He's not just impressed, he indirectly compares him to Majin Vegeta when he says that SS Gotenks can take someone that Majin Vegeta can't. Or does he have short term memory loss? Did he get brain damage?

Again, he doesn't think that, and it was a gag anyway and Evil Buu was suppressed.
I disagree. IMO, you are intrepreting things, or according a lot of importance to statments that aren't valid. I'm basing on a logic : the Buu's forms and his history.
You're not using logic and I'm not doing any interpreting. You're just saying "Nuh uh, none of these statements count" even the VERY blunt ones, like Goku's "I'm simply no match for his [Super Buu's] strength!". Seriously, what other way is there to interpret that?
Again, 2 Kaioshins aren't compatible with Buu + the Bejito thing. It makes 3 elements that show a special Kaioshin effect on Buu. It's never stated that a Kaioshin could increase Buu power. That's a complete theory.
Did you read my post? One wasn't compatible because of his gentle heart, with no mention of it being because of his Kaioshin ki, while the other just couldn't be used to revive Buu, which has absolutely nothing to do with his absorbptions.

No, it's not a theory. Goku flat out states that Super Buu is stronger than him, and that he's as strong as Kid Buu. South Kaioshin powering Buu up is flat-out stated in the manga.
Oh yes, that's it, magic ! The fusion that can't end, end in Buu. Strange !
Buu is literally made of magic.
Big bullshit. Because he wanted to fuse with Bejita or Gohan. Not make the boys fuse. The idea is brought by Popo. So, he prefers fuse to use his SSJ3. Even again a monster that he could beat.
Weirdly, he only says this after Vegeta and Gohan are dead, and then says later that he wanted Goten and Trunks to fuse since he first saw their power.

And come on, you can't honestly tell me that's not what he intended. He's like "wow, if only I could've had used fusion. it's super powerful and just requires two strong warriors of roughly equal height, build and power. It should definitely be enough to beat Buu." He's practically screaming "go get Goten and Trunks".
You do know that there's absolutely zero evidence that South Kaioshin increased Buu power ?
All along the saga, Toriyama show us how Kaioshins are nothing compared to Goku's friends.
Would you stop saying that? I already proved it wrong. South Kaioshin Buu > Super Buu > Goku = Kid Buu is flat-out stated and/or shown in the manga, like, a dozen times, by six or seven different characters.
But what best statment ? It's YOUR best statment, not at all a fact. Nothing in the manga suggests that EVil is 100x stronger than the fat, IMO it's just ridiculous. The only statment on his power is "his body is more adapted to fight", "he's greater". I'm sorry, but ther's not statments that can make think that he's 100x stronger, even in dreams. IMO, it's the contrary.
Goku states that SS Gotenks (pre) will be stronger than him, and Gotenks (post) is stated by Trunks and implied by Piccolo to be above SS Gotenks (pre). I don't take it seriously, and Piccolo's part was later retconned, but that's his best statement. The more obvious ones are "SS Gotenks can beat Fat Buu" and "SS3 Gotenks isn't stronger than Super Buu".
I don't contradict 95% of the manga as you say, but you're intrepretation. Which is no more valid than mine, sorry.
Yes, you do. Or do I have to bring up the plethora of Super Buu > Kid Buu statements again?

Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P7.2-3
Context: after Super Saiyan Gotenks forms for the first time
Piccolo: “…Yeah…Your ki really is absolutely incredible"

Note: this is after sensing Majin Vegeta and SS2 Goku

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

Note: this is after both Piccolo and Goku say (directly and indirectly) that he can win with just Super Saiyan.

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him"

Chapter: 472 (DBZ 278), P9.4
Context: after explaining that Fusion lasts 30 minutes
Goku: “With these two [Goten and Trunks], if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat [Boo] within 30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

Note: when Goku shows up, he says that he remembers fighting him and sensing him as Fat Buu.

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P5.6
Context: when Goku shows up
Boo: “…What, did you plan on coming to save everyone? You idiot…Can’t you tell that I’m in a fundamentally different dimension than the Majin Boo from back then?”

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength!

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”

Chapter: 493 (DBZ 299), P12.2-4
Kaioshin: “In-incredible…S-so this is Fusion?...”
Goku: “N-no…That’s Fusion, no doubt about it, but…Thi-this is Super Saiyan 3…! Un-unbelievable…Those rotten little brats…They al-already became Super Saiyan 3, and that took me years to finally manage it…Am-amazin’…haha…amazin’…!”
Note: So it seems that Goku never planned on Gotenks reaching Super Saiyan 3, but still thought he’d be able to defeat Boo

There's more, but Super Buu's statement and Goku's statement are the most blunt and easy to understand.
Going by anime performances, Vegeta is stronger than South Kaioshin. Kid Buu injured South Kaioshin badly with just one kick in his head, while Vegeta took four hits to get down, if I'm not wrong
Actually, he hit South Kaioshin three times, and South actually managed to damage and panic Buu, unlike Vegeta. So no, in the anime he's way stronger.

But that's just the anime, and has no bearing here. I think anime-wise SK + DK = Good Buu.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:38 pm

If I remember correctly, Vegetto's fusion breaking up was said to be caused by the "bad air" in Buu's body. So take that however you want.
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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:36 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Going by anime performances, Vegeta is stronger than South Kaioshin. Kid Buu injured South Kaioshin badly with just one kick in his head, while Vegeta took four hits to get down, if I'm not wrong
Actually, he hit South Kaioshin three times, and South actually managed to damage and panic Buu, unlike Vegeta. So no, in the anime he's way stronger.
The way the scene goes is like South Kaioshin is pressuring Buu. You can say he is even or better, but Buu suddenly shows an great advantage by taking him down with just one kick, this is my point. Until then, South Kaioshin was new, but suddenly he's shown messed up and badly injured. When Buu fought Vegeta SSJ2 he was "used" to fight a tired Goku SSJ3, it was a commom theory a couple of years ago. You have also Goku SSJ2 vs Kid Buu, when Goku said that Buu suddenly doubled his power, if I'm not wrong. Honestly, I don't think I can convince you with this anime explanation because it lacks consistence, but it is how I saw things in these Buu's topics around the world.
RandomGuy96 wrote: I think anime-wise SK + DK = Good Buu.
Well, it's a theory too. I don't think you can just apply math logic to every situation that requires power's predict. So, your point is that Good Buu's power is an add of South Kaioshin's and Dai Kaioshin's? And Buff Buu? Using Gotenks transformations as a base, Super Buu would be about 400x stronger than Goku SSJ3. Buff Buu is stronger than Super Buu and I ask you, where his power comes from? After South Kaioshin's discussion, we realize the plot wasn't worried about math at all.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by TheGmGoken » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:38 pm

Okay I lost where this was going 3 pages ago. Like what's the question and what theory have we come up with? Is this question like what happens when Boo eat people? How strong he gets?
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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:43 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:Okay I lost where this was going 3 pages ago. Like what's the question and what theory have we come up with? Is this question like what happens when Boo eat people? How strong he gets?
Pretty much yes. And for any particular case.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:07 pm

The way the scene goes is like South Kaioshin is pressuring Buu. You can say he is even or better, but Buu suddenly shows an great advantage by taking him down with just one kick, this is my point. Until then, South Kaioshin was new, but suddenly he's shown messed up and badly injured. When Buu fought Vegeta SSJ2 he was "used" to fight a tired Goku SSJ3, it was a commom theory a couple of years ago. You have also Goku SSJ2 vs Kid Buu, when Goku said that Buu suddenly doubled his power, if I'm not wrong. Honestly, I don't think I can convince you with this anime explanation because it lacks consistence, but it is how I saw things in these Buu's topics around the world.
The anime does lack consistence, as Southy didn't take much damage from the two hits before. But regardless I think that the point of that scene was to show that, though he was strong, he wasn't strong enough to beat Pure Buu. Actually damaging Pure Buu, panicking him, and making him work up a sweat is more than Vegeta could ever do in his wet dreams.
Well, it's a theory too. I don't think you can just apply math logic to every situation that requires power's predict. So, your point is that Good Buu's power is an add of South Kaioshin's and Dai Kaioshin's? And Buff Buu? Using Gotenks transformations as a base, Super Buu would be about 400x stronger than Goku SSJ3. Buff Buu is stronger than Super Buu and I ask you, where his power comes from? After South Kaioshin's discussion, we realize the plot wasn't worried about math at all.
That's just for the anime version, where Pure Buu > Super Buu and Good Buu is closer to the former in their fight. Also where South Kaioshin is shown to be weaker than Pure Buu. It can be the case in the manga too, but only if you believe Southy had a unique effect when nothing was noted.

Like I said, Gotenks doesn't have to be that strong. All that's set in stone is that he's way over twice as strong as Goku. Manga-wise I just have Southy as addition at the moment, like I detailed a few pages ago, and it seems to work well with everything but the base Gotenks gag scenes. He's a 65, Kid Buu is a 45, Super Buu is 100, SS3 Gotenks is 136, Fat Buu is 14.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:06 am

I think Post RoSaT Gotenks (base) is close to Super Buu (supressed), who was supossed to be stronger than Pre RoSaT Gotenks SSJ, as the kids felt Super Buu's ki and said they would fight him on equal terms even in normal state (understimating him, but it's still a feeling). Using SEG indications about multipliers, SSJ3 would be 400 times stronger. Then we have a problem to guess Super Buu's strenght relating to Fat Buu's.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:14 am

Hugo Boss wrote:I think Post RoSaT Gotenks (base) is close to Super Buu (supressed), who was supossed to be stronger than Pre RoSaT Gotenks SSJ, as the kids felt Super Buu's ki and said they would fight him on equal terms even in normal state (understimating him, but it's still a feeling). Using SEG indications about multipliers, SSJ3 would be 400 times stronger. Then we have a problem to guess Super Buu's strenght relating to Fat Buu's.
Fat Boo(Not to be confused to Good Boo) < Super Boo.

Fat Boo at full power and full pissed(Right before he split) > SSJ3 Goku. I think Fat Boo fully pissed and 100% is Super Boo's power.
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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:21 am

TheGmGoken wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:I think Post RoSaT Gotenks (base) is close to Super Buu (supressed), who was supossed to be stronger than Pre RoSaT Gotenks SSJ, as the kids felt Super Buu's ki and said they would fight him on equal terms even in normal state (understimating him, but it's still a feeling). Using SEG indications about multipliers, SSJ3 would be 400 times stronger. Then we have a problem to guess Super Buu's strenght relating to Fat Buu's.
Fat Boo(Not to be confused to Good Boo) < Super Boo.

Fat Boo at full power and full pissed(Right before he split) > SSJ3 Goku. I think Fat Boo fully pissed and 100% is Super Boo's power.
Well, think about Gotenks Pre and Post Training.

Super Buu is at least on the same level as Gotenks SSJ3, then you have Base Gotenks, who is stronger than Gotenks SSJ (Pre). Gotenks SSJ could possibly defeat Fat Buu (before Split).

So, it is like say the fully pissed Fat Boo would be as strong as Gotenks SSJ3. It's simply the highest power-up we would ever see. Goku and Piccolo would note Grey Buu's absurd power if we are using math logic.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:58 am

TheGmGoken wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:I think Post RoSaT Gotenks (base) is close to Super Buu (supressed), who was supossed to be stronger than Pre RoSaT Gotenks SSJ, as the kids felt Super Buu's ki and said they would fight him on equal terms even in normal state (understimating him, but it's still a feeling). Using SEG indications about multipliers, SSJ3 would be 400 times stronger. Then we have a problem to guess Super Buu's strenght relating to Fat Buu's.
Fat Boo(Not to be confused to Good Boo) < Super Boo.

Fat Boo at full power and full pissed(Right before he split) > SSJ3 Goku. I think Fat Boo fully pissed and 100% is Super Boo's power.
That's what I think as well.

Super Buu- 100,000,000,000
Fat Buu (fully enraged)- 100,000,000,000
Evil Buu- 64,000,000,000
Good Buu- 36,000,000,000
Well, think about Gotenks Pre and Post Training.

Super Buu is at least on the same level as Gotenks SSJ3, then you have Base Gotenks, who is stronger than Gotenks SSJ (Pre). Gotenks SSJ could possibly defeat Fat Buu (before Split).

So, it is like say the fully pissed Fat Boo would be as strong as Gotenks SSJ3. It's simply the highest power-up we would ever see. Goku and Piccolo would note Grey Buu's absurd power if we are using math logic.
Again, I don't buy the base Gotenks crap. It was just a set-up to a gag, and defies common sense (the boys getting fifty times stronger in one week).
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:01 am

Again, I don't buy the base Gotenks crap. It was just a set-up to a gag, and defies common sense (the boys getting fifty times stronger in one week).
To me Gotenks is the same thing as Mr Satan if Mark was strong like the Z fighters.
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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Vertical » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:14 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Well, think about Gotenks Pre and Post Training.

Super Buu is at least on the same level as Gotenks SSJ3, then you have Base Gotenks, who is stronger than Gotenks SSJ (Pre). Gotenks SSJ could possibly defeat Fat Buu (before Split).

So, it is like say the fully pissed Fat Boo would be as strong as Gotenks SSJ3. It's simply the highest power-up we would ever see. Goku and Piccolo would note Grey Buu's absurd power if we are using math logic.
Again, I don't buy the base Gotenks crap. It was just a set-up to a gag, and defies common sense (the boys getting fifty times stronger in one week).
Only if you believe that SSJ is 50xBase, and the Fusion formula is fixed and simple. If those beliefs require you to write-off the scene as a gag, then that's on you; it does not force the scene to be automatically disregarded for all interpretations.

Personally, I don't understand how "[Post-RoSaT] Base Gotenks > [Pre-RoSaT] SSJ Gotenks" is even a topic for debate... that power chain was effectively slammed in our faces.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:23 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Again, I don't buy the base Gotenks crap. It was just a set-up to a gag, and defies common sense (the boys getting fifty times stronger in one week).
Over 50 times to be exactly (in SEG terms). This really happened as Base Gotenks (Post) is implied to be stronger than Gotenks SSJ (Pre).

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:51 am

The only evidence for that is Piccolo states that he might have a chance against Evil Buu, which he later contradicts (saying that he didn't even expect SS Gotenks to win). The whole thing is purely a set-up for a gag. I'm sure that this wasn't meant as a serious power statement, but rather a way to set up Piccolo's face palm.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by BejitaSama » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:33 am

Piccolo never thought that base Gotenks could take Evil Buu (who was implied to be suppressed anyway). He was muttering "oh please let there be a miracle..." and later admitted that he didn't even think that Super Saiyan Gotenks would be able to take this new Buu.

No, he's not. He senses SS Gotenks and SS2 Vegeta. He even gets a demonstration of Gotenks' speed. He also senses Fat Buu and SS3 Goku, and is the only one who knows that Goku could have beaten Fat Buu. Yet you think that he sensed someone weaker than Majin Vegeta and still said he could win.

DO you hate Piccolo? Do you think he's a complete idiot and forgot how to sense ki for absolutely no reason?
Actually, Piccolo did. You're interpretating what you want, but he clearly believes that Gotenks in base could win in against Evil Buu. So if you think that this base Gotenks is superior to Majin Bejita...
There's a lot of example in the manga that shows that characters haven't a scouter in their head. Example : Piccolo asked to Goku if he think he could win against Perfect Cell after his second trip into ROSAT. However, he had to sense Trunks Grade 3 power. So, it means that this Piccolo is superior to this Trunks ? I don't believe so. There's also the exemple of Kaioshin : when he appeared, Piccolo was implying that they can't do anything against him.
And Gokû was suppressed in his SSJ3 against Majin Buu (fat).
Why the hell would the Daiz only say that Dai weakened Buu if they both did? And yes, they mention South Kaioshin, and don't say anything about him weakening Buu.
So why the hell would the Daiz only say that Gotenks surpassed Bejita and the others ? Why didn't they choose Gokû ?
And they don't say that South Kaioshin increased Buu's power. Never.
Again, he doesn't think that, and it was a gag anyway and Evil Buu was suppressed.
So you choose what you want to be a gag scene ? But Gotenks IS a gag character :)
You're not using logic and I'm not doing any interpreting. You're just saying "Nuh uh, none of these statements count" even the VERY blunt ones, like Goku's "I'm simply no match for his [Super Buu's] strength!". Seriously, what other way is there to interpret that?
As I said, Gokû seems to prefer fuse than use his SSJ3. And at this moment, he just wanted to fuse again with Bejita, to be sure to win easily.
Did you read my post? One wasn't compatible because of his gentle heart, with no mention of it being because of his Kaioshin ki, while the other just couldn't be used to revive Buu, which has absolutely nothing to do with his absorbptions.

No, it's not a theory. Goku flat out states that Super Buu is stronger than him, and that he's as strong as Kid Buu. South Kaioshin powering Buu up is flat-out stated in the manga.
The Kaioshin KI is implied to be incompatible : Babidi can't use Kaioshin energy, and for the Bejito thing, it's weird that your "magic" of Buu kept Gotenks fusion and rejected Bejito. You also ignore a lot of elements.
Weirdly, he only says this after Vegeta and Gohan are dead, and then says later that he wanted Goten and Trunks to fuse since he first saw their power.

And come on, you can't honestly tell me that's not what he intended. He's like "wow, if only I could've had used fusion. it's super powerful and just requires two strong warriors of roughly equal height, build and power. It should definitely be enough to beat Buu." He's practically screaming "go get Goten and Trunks".
You are totally turning the things as you want.
Gokû acutally says clearly "I can't do anything if Bejita didn't, we were equal", "F*ck, if Gohan or Bejita were alive, we could have fused to do something". And again, it's Mr Popo who brings Trunks and Goten idea. The face of Gokû shows that it was not his idea. Even so, are you in Gokû's head ?
Would you stop saying that? I already proved it wrong. South Kaioshin Buu > Super Buu > Goku = Kid Buu is flat-out stated and/or shown in the manga, like, a dozen times, by six or seven different characters.
No man, sorry. I agree with the South Kaioshin Buu > Evil Buu, but for the Pure Majin...
And your theory is strange, because if you think that South Kaioshin was at least in SSJ3 tier to handle Pure Majin (which totally impossible IMO), why the hell would he absorbed Dai Kaioshin ? Because he was stronger ? So at SSJ4 tier ?

For the Z-sword, Kibito said "numerous Kaioshins were utterly unable to handle". So, numerous Kaioshin are inferior to SSJ Gohan, but one of them is SSJ3 tier ? I can't believe it.
Goku's statments in Buu saga :
" I can't beat Fat Buu because Bejita didn't, we were equal "
" I don't think I could beat Fat Buu in SSJ3"
" We can't beat Super Buu ! "
" Okay, I admit : I could beat Fat Buu "

Morality : Goku was drunk all along the saga. Or Toriyama was.
Goku developed a lie disease in the other world.
Goku sometimes forgets ha has SSJ3.
Toriyama never choose his real Level until the final fight against Kid Buu.

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Re: Theories for how Boo's absorption works

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:36 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:The only evidence for that is Piccolo states that he might have a chance against Evil Buu, which he later contradicts (saying that he didn't even expect SS Gotenks to win). The whole thing is purely a set-up for a gag. I'm sure that this wasn't meant as a serious power statement, but rather a way to set up Piccolo's face palm.
I understand it, but Trunks also made that statement even after being warned about Super Buu's strenght. Piccolo also pointed that Gotenks powered-up and he even didn't know they could go Super Saiyan after fusing. The problem is that they understimated Super Buu by his current ki.

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