The After-Afterlife

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Entropy
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The After-Afterlife

Post by Entropy » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:47 pm

During the Kid Buu section of the Buu Saga, when Buu is attacking Dai Kaio's planet, Goku suddenly gets very anxious concerning Krillin and Yamcha's safety.
He says something along the lines of, "they've already died once, if they're killed again they'll no longer exist in this plane".

When Vegeta is fighting Kid Buu, Goku gives him a warning concerning the same thing.

So my questions are:
What happens to dead characters when they're killed in the Afterlife?
Is this anime only?*

*Not that its canonical status is important.

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Post by Xyex » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:12 pm

Don't know if it's anime only but I believe if you die in the afterlife you cease to exist. I can't remember if I heard this in the anime or a fanfic though. But I do remember something about not even being able to be wished back.
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Post by Gamingdevil » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:50 pm

In Budokai 3 Goku tells Vegeta he can't die twice or he'll cease to exist or something along those lines, so I reckon their souls have nowhere to go anywhere and just vanish from this dimension.
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Post by VegettoEX » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:54 pm

This very concept has always intrigued the Hell outta me as a fan. Unfortunately, they don't go into much discussion about it in the series. But yeah, from what little we know, if you're "killed" when you're already dead, you just completely cease to exist. Now, I don't know how far they'd take that... would you just never be able to come back? Would your very memory be erased from others? Etc...
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Post by Last Son of Krypton » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:12 pm

How can you die when you are already dead? That makes absolutely no sense.

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Post by VegettoEX » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:14 pm

Last Son of Krypton wrote:How can you die when you are already dead? That makes absolutely no sense.
Enma-daio allowed people in a few instances (Goku, Vegeta) to go back to Earth for 24 hours while they are dead. If they were "killed" while in this dead state, they would cease to exist.

What "killed" actually means in this case (loaned body destroyed?), we don't actually know.
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Post by Conan the SSJ » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:19 pm

Last Son of Krypton wrote:How can you die when you are already dead? That makes absolutely no sense.
You can still die again, but the thing is you have to be completly obliterated. The reason being is because the dead whom can keep their bodies are VERY durable, as proven when Buu beats the shit out of Krillin and Vegeta. Like I said, it's possible, but it has to be a killing attack that can say wipe out a planet. The concept is sorta explored more in GT's Super 17 saga, what happens there is if one who's already dead is killed again on Earth, they just go back to the After World. However if they're killed again anywhere outside of Hell in After World, they're basicly screwed and probably doomed to limbo in the same realm Krillin was in after Tamborine killed him, except a dead dead soul couldn't ever be wished back again.
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Post by Chaos Saiyajin » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:11 pm

I have always heard that if the dead die, they cease to exist all together. Conan, your statement about Krillin has got me wondering. Where exactly did Krillin, Roshi, and Chaozu go when they were killed in Dragonball? I mean Toriyama obviously hadn't came up with the afterlife yet, so did they just enter heaven as spirits without bodies?

Didn't Cell and Freeza tell Goku that since they were already dead, he couldn't kill them again? I think this goes back to the whole dying again the afterlife thing. If one dies in Heaven or Hell, they simply return. If one of the dead dies outside of the afterlife, then they are truly gone for good.
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Post by El_Diablo » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:25 pm

Kami-sama says that when someone is killed by a demon, their soul is forced to wander in limbo forever.
Where's the beef?

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Post by Xyex » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:55 pm

El_Diablo wrote:Kami-sama says that when someone is killed by a demon, their soul is forced to wander in limbo forever.
Except we now know that Piccolo and his henchmen are not and never were Demons. So the question still stands. That and, where was Krillin after Freeza killed him? There was no mention of him having gone to train with King Kai and the impression I got when he came back was that the last thing he remembered was Namek...
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Post by Eclipse » Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:17 pm

Enma-daio allowed people in a few instances (Goku, Vegeta) to go back to Earth for 24 hours while they are dead. If they were "killed" while in this dead state, they would cease to exist.

What "killed" actually means in this case (loaned body destroyed?), we don't actually know.
I'd say they'd cease to exist, just disappear. This might make sense,but It's just a crappy theory of mine.

I've got a question relating to this. In Movie 12, right when Vegeta and Goku fuse, Janemba smashes Pikkan. After stating something, he falls down. Does he die, or simply pass out?

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Post by VegettoEX » Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:12 pm

Eclipse wrote:I've got a question relating to this. In Movie 12, right when Vegeta and Goku fuse, Janemba smashes Pikkan. After stating something, he falls down. Does he die, or simply pass out?
He says, "Yat...ta..."... so that's got no real relevance to his situation. I've always been under the impression that he just passes out. But yeah, I think the characters in that movie were definitely all worried about the being-killed-while-dead.
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Post by Super Sonic » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:26 pm

I noticed that too and was weirded out by it. I figured if they were blown up while dead, wouldn't their bodies simply would have been destroyed and they would be those puffy cloud souls?

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my theory

Post by desirecampbell » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:23 pm

well, I've thought about this for a while ,and it stills isn't clear, but here goes:

When you die your sould goes to the After-Life. If you have done something 'great' you get to keep your body (either it disappears in the mortal realm and follows you, or you get a whole new one) - this 'great thing' can be either good (saving the world, ala Goku) or evil (destroying a few, ala the Ginyu force). I beleive this is decided by Enma Diaou, but I'm not certain.

If you arn't a 'great person' your soul goes to Anoyo and you appear as just a little cloud and you're sent to hell to wait to be re-incarnated. In this cloud form, you are not a person - you are a cloud. When Krillin dies and then is wished back, he remembers nothing of his cloud-ness.

It seems that being 'dead' just means you've got no extra lives left. Your body isn't any stronger and you gain no abilities because of it, you just get a second chance for doing something great - it's like a reward. You get hurt, heal, get sick - just like when you were 'alive', you just don't age anymore.

It's unclear what would happen if you 'died' while dead. If you would just completly cease to exist or if there an 'after-afterlife' that you wake up in. But it seems logical that 'death' while dead would be similar to regular death.

And there's no evidence to suggest that where you are when you die the second time (ie, mortal world or anoyo) has any affect.


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Post by Rocketman » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:30 pm

Goku does say he was able to hold Super Saiyan 3 much better while dead, though, doesn't he?

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Post by Super Sonic » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:32 pm

Though I'm not so sure about this, I heard that the part where Buu shows up at the Grand Kai's planet was filler.

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Post by The S » Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:38 am

That really is a noggin-scratcher... DBZ mythos (especially when it comes to deities and the afterlife) is often just as confusing as actual mythologies, if not moreso. I know that in GT Son Gokuu "killed" Freeza and Cell many times (even going as far as shattering them as ice), but they came back every time. But Klilyn and Yamucha were warned of their ceasing to exist while training on Daikaiou's planet. Very strange...
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Post by tarsonis » Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:49 am

When Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Chaotsu, and Piccolo are training on King Kaio's planet, someone points out that there was no reason to fear dying because they were already dead. Not sure if this was mentioned in the dub only or if it was in Japanese as well.

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Post by Metrite » Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:02 am

It seems like the "death when dead" thing is just something Toriyama may have come up with near the end of the Buu saga since it would probably be rather dull if a dead guy like Vegeta could just fight with nothing to be scared of(if you die, just come back and die again, you'd have endless chances!).

As for Cell and Freeza being invincible when dead, it's best not to consider what happened in GT since the people who wrote that story evidently didn't care about how inconsistant it was. Back in DBZ everybody that had a body when dead, regardless of where they went, had a halo, yet in GT they don't... goes to show they just purposefully contradicted things without a care(just like countless other things such as 17 having ki, didn't much of the Cell saga revolve around the fact that andoids don't have ki? :P ).

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Post by Duo » Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:39 am

Xyex wrote:
El_Diablo wrote:Kami-sama says that when someone is killed by a demon, their soul is forced to wander in limbo forever.
Except we now know that Piccolo and his henchmen are not and never were Demons. So the question still stands. That and, where was Krillin after Freeza killed him? There was no mention of him having gone to train with King Kai and the impression I got when he came back was that the last thing he remembered was Namek...
When was Piccolo and his offspring being demons ever contradicted? Being a Demon isn't a race of some kind. It is a state of ones being...ones mind. Perhaps the amount of evil in your body, as well as having a great deal of Chi. Evil Chi. "Demonic" Chi?

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