Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
(sorry if this belongs in Fan-creation section) Notes the quotations on the word official. Not bashing him but I'm just saying he states these guides he made is official to DB-DBZ because it works. However not to start a canon debate(So please don't) but he sates BoG isn't canon because he doesn't work with his guides which kinda pissed him off I think. This is due to his theory that Base Saiyans surpassed Freeza's 120 million.
Yeah but you know this completely trashes my SSJ Theory? Also explain to me whats so special about the number 120 million that it can't be surpassed? I guess we'll have to wait and see the movie with subtitles. This could all be one big rumor.
Here a little brief summary of his guide: For all those who have already seen my How " " Works series, this simply all of them combined with a little more detail and is written in a way that should make more sense
So do you think his guides can work? I honestly think it can't due to the fact even through AKira didn't mean to make SSJ 50x. It makes sense if you put thought into it. As BoG kinda hinted(Arguments that Goku was suppressed is allowed) Freeza was stronger than Base Saiyans. Hence why they needed SSJ and higher levels(In Gohan's case rage boast) to compete with other adversary.
If you use the words "fan creates" in the title of your thread, I'd say that that's a pretty good indication that it belongs in the Fan Creation section
Kamiccolo9 wrote:If you use the words "fan creates" in the title of your thread, I'd say that that's a pretty good indication that it belongs in the Fan Creation section
Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.
I didn't think guide's count since I've seen guides on here that was on this General Franchise Discussion. But can you answer question?
I'm not usually one for strength discussions, but I couldn't resist picking a hole in this, (I watched this video after I was redirected to it in the first link) and there's a good one in this outside of the Battle of Gods.
If Goku had a battle power of 70 million in base form and Super Saiyan increased it 145 million like the video says, then why the heck wouldn't he just the Kaioken if he needed to? I think that opens up a can of worms (and arguably a plot hole) so it's probably better to just, as Kendamu said, stick to the official guides, and at least one of them states that they're multipliers.
All said and done, though, I do think it's kind of a neat idea. I may not be fond of discussions on battle powers, but I do like it when fans create complex theories this.
Kiyza wrote:I'm not usually one for strength discussions, but I couldn't resist picking a hole in this, (I watched this video after I was redirected to it in the first link) and there's a good one in this outside of the Battle of Gods.
If Goku had a battle power of 70 million in base form and Super Saiyan increased it 145 million like the video says, then why the heck wouldn't he just the Kaioken if he needed to? I think that opens up a can of worms (and arguably a plot hole) so it's probably better to just, as Kendamu said, stick to the official guides, and at least one of them states that they're multipliers.
All said and done, though, I do think it's kind of a neat idea. I may not be fond of discussions on battle powers, but I do like it when fans create complex theories this.
If he really stated SSJ only doubles power. Then there is no point in anyone watching this at all.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kiyza wrote:I'm not usually one for strength discussions, but I couldn't resist picking a hole in this, (I watched this video after I was redirected to it in the first link) and there's a good one in this outside of the Battle of Gods.
If Goku had a battle power of 70 million in base form and Super Saiyan increased it 145 million like the video says, then why the heck wouldn't he just the Kaioken if he needed to? I think that opens up a can of worms (and arguably a plot hole) so it's probably better to just, as Kendamu said, stick to the official guides, and at least one of them states that they're multipliers.
All said and done, though, I do think it's kind of a neat idea. I may not be fond of discussions on battle powers, but I do like it when fans create complex theories this.
If he really stated SSJ only doubles power. Then there is no point in anyone watching this at all.
Vegeta uses Super Saiyan 2!
It's not very effective...
Goku uses Kaioken x20!
It's super effective!
*chuckles* Is this dude for real? When did Toriyama state that 50 times was never meant to be constant? This guy is twisting statements around to support his own fan theories. SSJ is 50x base nuff said.
Kiyza wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:If he really stated SSJ only doubles power. Then there is no point in anyone watching this at all.
No, no. The theory in the video was that Super Saiyan is a static increase in one's battle power rather than a 50x multiplier.
Which is bull shit . If that were the case, base Goku would eventually get stronger than his SSJ self.
Last edited by TheMightyOzaru on Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
dbzfan7 wrote:If he really stated SSJ only doubles power. Then there is no point in anyone watching this at all.
No, no. The theory in the video was that Super Saiyan is a static increase in one's battle power rather than a 50x multiplier.
What Draken and Ozaru said.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I don't understand why so many people have a problem with the 50x multiplier. It makes perfect sense given what we're shown.
The 50x multiplier avoids base power level bloating.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I don't understand why so many people have a problem with the 50x multiplier. It makes perfect sense given what we're shown.
The 50x multiplier avoids base power level bloating.
Well, Kami forbid that the base powers don't get high enough
You sure you don't mean God or King Kai
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I predict that this is one of those guys who thinks that the base saiyans are stronger than Piccolo and Kaioshin? Or bases a ton of his 'official' guide on the kiris scene?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
RandomGuy96 wrote:I predict that this is one of those guys who thinks that the base saiyans are stronger than Piccolo and Kaioshin? Or bases a ton of his 'official' guide on the kiris scene?
TheGmGoken wrote:but he states BoG isn't canon because he doesn't work with his guides which kinda pissed him off I think.
When the first thing you read about something like this is, "I don't want to count <insert source here> because it goes against my theories which I view as fact," you know you're in for a stinker.
. If that were the case, base Goku would eventually get stronger than his SSJ self.
