Buu and Genki Dama

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mrkitano
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Buu and Genki Dama

Post by mrkitano » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:50 am

So, savant people! :wink:

Please, could someone (alone or in chorus) explain to me how Goku's Genki Dama has destroyed, or better, defeated a creature that can regenerate from dust and vapour? Does matter dissappear in Dragon World?

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Post by askani son » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:01 pm

I think that the reason it worked was because it was pure "good" energy and it was created to destroy the evil in Buu and not just Buu himself. Or something like that...
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Post by tarsonis » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:12 pm

Depends how Buu works. If all that's needed is his individual molecules to regenerate, then perhaps the Genki Dama disintegrated him even further, on an atomic level.

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Post by Bejiita » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:31 pm

It's funny because I just this second watched this episode.

Yes, a Genki Dama does do more harm to evil hearted people, and further more can't affect good hearted people, like when Gohan deflects it against Vegeta.

However, this Genki Dama was so big that no matter who it hit they would have perished, which is why Goku is so deperate to send it back Buu's way, because the attack would have killed him also. It vaporised every part of Buu since it was aimed diretly at him and he was at the core of it when it exploded, leaving him with literally no cells remaining.
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Post by *PINHEAD* » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:12 pm

Exactly. Buu could regenerate as long as some remnant of his body remained existent. But the Genki Dama pretty much reduced him to pieces that couldn't really be considered Buu anymore.
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Post by Bejiita » Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:18 pm

*PINHEAD* wrote:Exactly. Buu could regenerate as long as some remnant of his body remained existent. But the Genki Dama pretty much reduced him to pieces that couldn't really be considered Buu anymore.
The sheer power of this Genki Dama is easy to distinguish, as you can compare the blatant difference between this and Cell and Gohan's Kamehameha by the speed at which Majin Buu dissolves. It's far more quicker than when Cell slowly starts to crumble before eventually being completey vapourised. Majin Buu is gone in about 3 seconds, Cell has a slower and far more painful death.
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Post by mrkitano » Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:36 pm

Exactly. Buu could regenerate as long as some remnant of his body remained existent. But the Genki Dama pretty much reduced him to pieces that couldn't really be considered Buu anymore.
Yeah, only that Buu himself was once vapourised and regenerated from the vapour.
At any rate, both the exceptional vulnerability to the Genki Dama due to Buu being pure evil, or the theory that he was destroyed because his very atoms were dismantled -so he stopped being matter to become pure energy, I suppose- are good theories!

In case of the Evil-ness being a decisive factor, it can't be the only one, since neither Vejita or Freeza were killed when hit. There's a certain quota of pure destructive power to Genki Dama's effectiveness, I'd say.

The Buu battle was the first time the Genki Dama has proven to be 100% successful! At last...!

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Post by VegettoEX » Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:42 pm

mrkitano wrote:The Buu battle was the first time the Genki Dama has proven to be 100% successful! At last...!
Yeah; I kinda like that. The attack had been used twice, previously... and... uhh... didn't really work.

Of course, we have all the movies it was used in where it worked perfectly fine (2, 3, 4) and the other movie were it was creatively used (7).
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Post by Bejiita » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:32 pm

mrkitano wrote:
Exactly. Buu could regenerate as long as some remnant of his body remained existent. But the Genki Dama pretty much reduced him to pieces that couldn't really be considered Buu anymore.
Yeah, only that Buu himself was once vapourised and regenerated from the vapour.
At any rate, both the exceptional vulnerability to the Genki Dama due to Buu being pure evil, or the theory that he was destroyed because his very atoms were dismantled -so he stopped being matter to become pure energy, I suppose- are good theories!

In case of the Evil-ness being a decisive factor, it can't be the only one, since neither Vejita or Freeza were killed when hit. There's a certain quota of pure destructive power to Genki Dama's effectiveness, I'd say.

The Buu battle was the first time the Genki Dama has proven to be 100% successful! At last...!
Yes, I was going to say how the other times Genki Dama was used wern't done properly, the first time half of it's power was lost and the one against Freeza seemed to just damage his tail and make him very angry.

Not to forget the one against Buu was a lot more powerful than the previous two.
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Post by Xyex » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:27 pm

I always figured it was like this. As long as a single intact atom of Buu remained he could regenerate from that. The Spirit Bomb simply atomized him.
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Post by Eclipse » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:39 pm

the one against Freeza seemed to just damage his tail and make him very angry.
Freeza already lost his tail by then. Krillin cut it.
I always figured it was like this. As long as a single intact atom of Buu remained he could regenerate from that. The Spirit Bomb simply atomized him.
...........................
Question: In the RoSaT (Room of Spirit and Time/Hyperbolic Time Chamber), didn't Gotenks and Piccolo do this exact same by destroying his pieces?

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Post by Akira » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:47 pm

The first Spirit Bomb completely destroyed that brick North Kaio threw at Son Goku. So technicaly Goku's first spirit bomb was sucessful.

I jest, I jest...

Seriously though, the Spirit Bomb used on Vegeta did a number on him. Even at half power he seemed to get the hell kicked out of him by that attack. I always assumed it didn't kill him outright because he wasn't truly evil.

Sure, ol Vegeta did nasty things. He killed lots of innocents too. However, he was acting under Freeza's orders early on, and hisown ambition after that. But under that banket of evil was a decent core. When Vegeta died the first time at Freeza's hands, he called out to Goku to avenge thier people, he cried because of what he had become. It seems to me one of the only instances that we ever see a glimpse of Vegeta's true self. The coarse tough, competetive loner exterior remains for the rest of the series, but he finally is free to live his life for himself after that.

Freeza was evil to the core, he even states that the Spirit Bomb almost got him. He just was powerful (and lucky) enough to get out from under it before it exploded on him, yet it still cost him part of his tail.

I agree that it finished Buu outright because it overpowered him and he was total evil.

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Post by Xyex » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:00 pm

Eclipse wrote:
the one against Freeza seemed to just damage his tail and make him very angry.
Freeza already lost his tail by then. Krillin cut it.
I always figured it was like this. As long as a single intact atom of Buu remained he could regenerate from that. The Spirit Bomb simply atomized him.
...........................
Question: In the RoSaT (Room of Spirit and Time/Hyperbolic Time Chamber), didn't Gotenks and Piccolo do this exact same by destroying his pieces?
Nope. They were blasting the pieces, yes, but not atomizing him. The vapor that was drifting up from him is proof he wasn't atomized. There should have been *nothing* left of him in that case. Since there were atoms that survived he survived.
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Post by desirecampbell » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:22 pm

So, we have two theories here:

1. The Spirit Bomb was strong enough to just atomize Buu.

2. Because Buu was evil the Spirit Bomb did more damage to him.

(1) seems pretty easily explained, but what about (2)? Is there any reference to the Spirit Bomb only hurting evil? Or was it more along the lines of 'hurts evil more than good'? Or maybe 'hurts based on the amount/purity of the evil in you'? The last part would be a good explaination for why Gohan didn't get hurt by it at all (no evil), and why Vegeta got pretty messed up (pretty evil). But not for why Goku was afraid of the Spirit Bomb comming back at him, or why Freeza didn't get very hurt, or why it can affect inanimate objects.


Well, that kind of rambled... to summarize: does anyone know of anything said about the Spirit Bomb and it's relation to 'goodness' or 'evil'?

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Post by Super Sonic » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:43 pm

With the spirit bomb, remember the reasons behind its failings. Goku lost quite a bit of the energy for it when Vegeta was hit by it. Full powered it might have not been enough to destroy Vegeta in his giant monkey form, but in his regular form it would have been enough. And Frieza's fourth form was stronger than anyone even Frieza himself knew. He said himself, he was surprised he was still alive.

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Post by Chaos Saiyajin » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:13 am

Does the battle with Yi Xing Long count as a 100% Genki Dama victory?
Goku used the Genki Dama:
-VS. Vegeta (failed)
-VS. Turles (haven't seen the movie in awhile, you tell me)
-VS. Slug (successful? It was small but it managed to kill Slug anyway)
-VS. Freeza (failed)
-VS. Meta Cooler (was this a Genki Dama? I couldn't tell)
-VS. Super #13 (successful)
-VS. Kid Buu (successful)
-VS. Yi Xing Long (successful)

If I forgot any, tell me!
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Post by VegettoEX » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:16 am

Chaos Saiyajin wrote:Does the battle with Yi Xing Long count as a 100% Genki Dama victory?
Goku used the Genki Dama:
-VS. Vegeta (failed)
-VS. Tullece (haven't seen the movie in awhile, you tell me)
-VS. Slug (successful? It was small but it managed to kill Slug anyway)
-VS. Freeza (failed)
-VS. Meta Cooler (was this a Genki Dama? I couldn't tell)
-VS. Super #13 (successful)
-VS. Kid Buu (successful)
-VS. Yi Xing Long (successful)

If I forgot any, tell me!
Yep, it worked on Tullece. Amazingly, it had lost a ton of power (well, probably)... but it still worked. Kinda weird :P.

What he used against Metal Coola, I really have no idea. It kinda looks like a really tiny Genki-Dama, but we never actually saw him gathering any energy. Not sure! Guess that one's up to speculation.
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Post by Chaos Saiyajin » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:25 am

Thanks, VegettoEX! I can't wait til FUNi gets out the movie 3 re-dub. Personally, I think the Meta Cooler thing probably was a Genki Dama. I hate the Genki Dama personally. Everytime a super strong enemy appeared, Goku held up his hands and...BAM! Enemy destroyed, Goku and friends tired...within a one to ten year time span, another enemy, stronger than the last appears, Goku repeats the process. :? At least Cell and Bebi were killed with the Kamehameha Wave...
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Post by Super Sonic » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:07 am

You forgot about Dr. Wheelo.

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Post by Eclipse » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:27 am

What he used against Metal Coola, I really have no idea. It kinda looks like a really tiny Genki-Dama, but we never actually saw him gathering any energy. Not sure! Guess that one's up to speculation.
It didn't look much like a Genki Dama....plus I doubt he'd have a few seconds to gather something like that. I kinda prefer it to be a small energy blast. It would work more

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