Androids 19 & 20 stronger than Freeza?

[Kakashi]

Thoughts?

[hleV]

#19 after absorbing SS Goku's Kamehameha? Possibly, but unlikely. Initial #19 & #20? No.

[Darkprince410]

There's no way to definitively tell, since the only character to fight both was Goku, and Goku's strength when he fought #19 was considerably impeded by his heart virus, which was affecting him before he even began to fight. We do know that #19 and #20 aren't anywhere near as powerful as Trunks had suggested that #17 and #18 from his time would be (Piccolo says as much about the subject), but that's about it in comparing strengths.

[Super Vegetto]

Gero wasn't expecting anyone to be that strong and 50x boost is big diffrence, so they could be much weaker than Frieza.

[Pantalones]

I always thought they were a little bit weaker than 100% Freeza, at least before absorbing anyone's energy. Sort of an "80%-90% Freeza" sort of level. They could also be equal or even stronger, though; it's not like the Super Saiyans would have a hard time with someone on or even slightly above Freeza's level, after all (since even Trunks, the weakest of the three, was already strong enough to easily kill Freeza three years before.)

They have to be strong enough that the humans and base Saiyans can't fight them directly (Krillin and Tenshinhan could probably finish them off with a lucky Kienzan or Shin Kikoho if they're caught off guard and unable to absorb them, but Yamcha and base Saiyans are always going to be helpless against #19 or #20), but also weak enough that they'd have no chance against the Super Saiyans (or Piccolo) without absorbing energy and are still pretty screwed even with absorption unless their opponent gets sick in the middle of the fight. So I guess it mostly depends on how strong you have Piccolo after the three years--if Piccolo's still below Freeza's 100%, then the Androids need to be even further below that level. If Piccolo's surpassed Freeza in power, the Androids could be closer to Freeza's 100%. If Piccolo's surpassed Trunks-from-3-years-ago, then #19 and #20 could easily be stronger than Freeza.

[Blade]

I think Android 19 would have been a difficult proposition for Freeza - perhaps not in terms of raw battle power but instead due to the innate advantages that the androids held with their energy absorbing techniques.

Keep in mind that to defeat #19 Vegeta had to more or less let himself get sucked dry of energy - there was simply no other strategic way to get close enough to deliver the fatal blow, as ranged (energy) attacks would have been absorbed. If Android #20 had attacked Vegeta instead of buying his bluff then Vegeta would probably have been killed - and I see no reason why Freeza would fare any better, given that Vegeta at that point in the story was more powerful than he.

[Kakarot88]

Hard to tell cuz Goku was fighting them sick...

Looking at it based on what we know we have this:
(1) It took SS Goku just over 5 minutes to beat Freeza once he became a Super Saiyan
(2) It felt like it took SS Trunks even less time (but maybe that was 5 min too).
(3) Vegeta beats 19 fairly easily but again no time frame

Problem is all of those are independent events.

Seeing as Goku trained for 3 years after Freeza (4 if we include Yardrat training) one can assume he is indeed stronger than he was against Freeza. Thus, ostensibly, for 19 to contend he must at least be on par with Freeza. Problem with that theory is when Goku fought 19 his body was under attack...so Goku's power may have been even less than when he initially fought Freeza as a Super Saiyan rather than that power plus 4 years of training

So really it's just my long way of saying there is no definitive way to tell.

But based on Toriyama upping the ante with each new villain the Genzonegans (Androids) 19 and 20 were likely were supposed to be stronger than Freeza, thus higlighting the fact that Goku and co. are just that much more amped after their intense training...but 17 and 18 show up so who knows!

[hleV]

Keep in mind that to defeat #19 Vegeta had to more or less let himself get sucked dry of energy - there was simply no other strategic way to get close enough to deliver the fatal blow, as ranged (energy) attacks would have been absorbed. If Android #20 had attacked Vegeta instead of buying his bluff then Vegeta would probably have been killed - and I see no reason why Freeza would fare any better, given that Vegeta at that point in the story was more powerful than he.

#19 was lucky to grab Vegeta, but even that ended up with his hands cut off. If not for that, I think Vegeta could've severely damaged #19 with just physical attacks. After all, Vegeta pointed out that he only has to be careful of their arms, not that he has to remove them in order to win. And when Vegeta let #19 punch him, Vegeta said that he had figured the androids were about this strong, suggesting that Vegeta wasn't wrong about anything.

[Blade]

Keep in mind that to defeat #19 Vegeta had to more or less let himself get sucked dry of energy - there was simply no other strategic way to get close enough to deliver the fatal blow, as ranged (energy) attacks would have been absorbed. If Android #20 had attacked Vegeta instead of buying his bluff then Vegeta would probably have been killed - and I see no reason why Freeza would fare any better, given that Vegeta at that point in the story was more powerful than he.

#19 was lucky to grab Vegeta, but even that ended up with his hands cut off. If not for that, I think Vegeta could've severely damaged #19 with just physical attacks. After all, Vegeta pointed out that he only has to be careful of their arms, not that he has to remove them in order to win. And when Vegeta let #19 punch him, Vegeta said that he had figured the androids were about this strong, suggesting that Vegeta wasn't wrong about anything.

He deliberately let #19 get hold of him so that he would be able to get close enough to neutralise him.

[hleV]

Oh, is that in the dialoge? I don't have an English version :/
I find it a bit weird. If energy-drained SS Vegeta's Big Bang Attack was able to destroy #19 (who had absorbed SS Goku's Kamehameha and now some of SS Vegeta's ki), why would he have a problem with physical attacks (prior to having his energy drained)?

[Kakarot88]

Oh, is that in the dialoge? I don't have an English version :/
I find it a bit weird. If energy-drained SS Vegeta's Big Bang Attack was able to destroy #19 (who had absorbed SS Goku's Kamehameha and now some of SS Vegeta's ki), why would he have a problem with physical attacks (prior to having his energy drained)?

Why would who have a problem with physical attacks?

[hleV]

↑ Why would Vegeta have a problem with only using physical attacks to defeat #19.

[Kamiccolo9]

↑ Why would Vegeta have a problem with only using physical attacks to defeat #19.

Well, Vegeta likes to leave an impression. Beating a guy into a pulp isn't as flashy as nuking him

[hleV]

↑ That's... not what we're discussing.

[RandomGuy96]

After 19 absorbed the Kamehameha? Most definitely. He managed to make SS Vegeta bleed; SS Vegeta couldn't tank his hits, like Cell could tank 16's for example.

Initially? No, not either of them. I think they were initially around King Cold's level.

Android 20, ever? Most likely not. Maybe, but if so, only post energy drain, and not by much. Piccolo was implied to be as strong as, weaker than, or only slightly stronger than Mecha Freeza (by Kami), and he crushed 20 at the height of his strength.

(Note that I do in fact think Piccolo is stronger than Mecha Arc Trunks, who is barely stronger than full power Mecha Freeza, I'm just listing what was stated; I put Piccolo moderately a bit above Trunks, rather than below or massively above, as a kind of compromise between the contradictory implications)

My levels:

20- 100,000,000
--+Vegeta's ki- 110,000,000
--+Piccolo's ki- 127,000,000

19- 90,000,000
--+Goku's ki- 160,000,000

SS Vegeta- 220,000,000

Piccolo- 170,000,000

SS Trunks (Mecha Arc)- 150,000,000

Mecha Freeza- 140,000,000 (unseen)
--vs Trunks (~70%)- 100,000,000

[dprez]

Like others have said I was never impressed with #19 and #20 and always believed 100% Freeza was stronger than both. Only after #19 absorbed the kamehameha was Freeza surpassed imo. Maybe #20 did as well after absorbing Vegatas blast and some from Piccolo. Who knows, but that would mean Piccolo surpassed Freeza as well.

[freezamite]

Not even close.
Android 19 was in fact much, much weaker than a basic SSJ.

From what we know:
Freezer >>> Freezer AGD>= Namek SSJ Goku

Now, the question is if 19/20 are that much stronger than SSJ Goku was. We know from what Piccolo says that Goku is much weaker than he ever was as a SSJ, so there's no doubt that Freezer is above 19 and 20 even if we take it's Freezer AGD state into account.

[Nazi Cola]

Before absorptions, who knows.

After, I find it highly inarguable for either of the androids to be weaker than Freeza. No.19 post-Goku was said by Vegeta to be not be "as bad" as the rumors insinuated, and No.20 after his absorptions was the one who prompted Piccolo to actually wonder if he was as strong as the ones Trunks had warned the gang about. Given Vegeta's statement is basically implying No.19 is a beast but simply not as much as Trunks hyped, and that Freeza being anywhere near the strength of the androids Trunks warned about (Piccolo's comment) is preposterous and downright incorrect, I don't find it believable that Freeza would pose any threat to them. Again, that's after they'd absorbed their respective amounts of energy from Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, and Yamcha.

[Big Momma]

I find it unlikely that they are stronger. Gero only measured Goku's strength when he fought Vegeta, and I'd imagine Freeza's strength to be much, much, much, much more than what was displayed in that battle. Far more than Gero would have accounted for.

[Blade]

No, not either of them. I think they were initially around King Cold's level.

I'm rather certain that King Cold is more powerful than Freeza. I'm pretty sure that it's in the manga that Gohan notes that when their spaceship approaches Earth the second power, King Cold, 'is even stronger than Freeza'.