SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza

[Rocketman]

Can I get a real answer please -_-?

Because battle powers are bullshit.

That is the answer.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Can I get a real answer please -_-?

Because battle powers are bullshit.

That is the answer.

I don't think they are so give me an appropriate response. Please and thank you .

[TheGmGoken]

Can I get a real answer please -_-?

Because battle powers are bullshit.

That is the answer.

I don't think they are so give me an appropriate response. Please and thank you .

What you think of what I said early? Just in case you skipped over it

Even though I think SOME of the hits Goku let himself get hit just so see what Freeza could really do. I'm going have to side with Random. TheMightyOzaru you're putting way to much thought into Power levels and gaps between them. The major point is Goku was stronger. Ignore the gaps for a moment. Goku was the better man and it was quite evident. Don't put to much thought into power levels because let's be honest they are useless. It's cool to use them to make comparison or state numbers but to be fair I doubt Toriyama even cared about the gap in every single power levels.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I read what you said, but something like this can be reasoned. Someone already gave me an idea I like too. Goku tanking his attacks just to see how well he can is good enough for me.

[KentalSSJ6]

Are you referring to the fight in the anime? Or the fight in the manga. In the manga, Freeza doesent perform nearly as well as he did in the anime and it was more or less a one sided battle.

[TheMightyOzaru]

He fares much better in the anime, sure, but Freeza's not total push over in the manga.

[TheGmGoken]

I read what you said, but something like this can be reasoned. Someone already gave me an idea I like too. Goku tanking his attacks just to see how well he can is good enough for me.

You mean this post

Let's not forget that Goku wanted to see what Freeza 100% was made of.

or

taking blows on purpose(maybe). Gokuu was fighting "the strongest in the universe" he let furiza go 100% so he could feel satisfied beating him at his fullest.

Are you referring to the fight in the anime? Or the fight in the manga. In the manga, Freeza doesent perform nearly as well as he did in the anime and it was more or less a one sided battle.

Freeza does decent in the manga version. It wasn't that one sided.

Anime Version: Damn near even. Freeza even takes the lead for awhile.
Manga version: Goku lets Freeza warm up on him. Freeza does Nova strike. Freeza elbows Goku.

The SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza fight was shorter in the manga(Remember 5 minutes)

[Rocketman]

I don't think they are so give me an appropriate response. Please and thank you :thumbup: .

The entire question exists because you are overvaluing power levels. It does not exist in the original work.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't think they are so give me an appropriate response. Please and thank you .

The entire question exists because you are overvaluing power levels. It does not exist in the original work.

I'm aware, but I want to at least try and make sense of things the best I can with what we've got.

[FoolsGil]

a lot of things in DBZ don't add up. The reason why Freeza fared as well as he did is just because and Epic Fight. That's it.

[freezamite]

Can I get a real answer please -_-?

Because battle powers are bullshit.

That is the answer.

I don't think they are so give me an appropriate response. Please and thank you .

Because the Daizenshuu 7 is bullshit, that is the answer.

a lot of things in DBZ don't add up.

Not so many things, DBZ was a pretty well build manga considering how it was made. The things don't add if you go by the official guides that misunderstood the whole manga from top to bottom.

[TheMightyOzaru]

No it's not, and please don't talk down to the Daizenshuu just because you don't want accept what they put in it. If it's not a blatant contradiction, it shouldn't be disregarded. Nappa's BP, for example, can be disregarded because Goku's statements about Nappa, after he starts trying, should put him over 4,000 IMO. Freeza and Goku's BPs? Yeah not really.

[rereboy]

Why did Freeza fare so well against Goku, despite the 25% gap? We've seen that even the smallest of gaps leave a lot of room to decimate your opponent in the case of Vegeta vs Dodoria and Zarbon. Was Goku holding back or something?

I believe that the BPs listed officially for SSJ Goku and Freeza's 100% are for their full power. However, when they fought in those forms they had already taken significant damage, damage that, I believe, couldn't be totally negated by their power up. As such, I believe that they were actually much closer in power than they would be with their full pristine power because Goku had more accumulated damage than Freeza. That explains why Freeza did so well agaisnt SSJ Goku and why Goku only started to win when Freeza's 100% cut his stamina short. It also helps to explain a little better how Freeza is so easily defeated on Earth despite supposedly being stronger than he was before.

[freezamite]

No it's not, and please don't talk down to the Daizenshuu just because you don't want accept what they put in it. If it's not a blatant contradiction, it shouldn't be disregarded. Nappa's BP, for example, can be disregarded because Goku's statements about Nappa, after he starts trying, should put him over 4,000 IMO. Freeza and Goku's BPs? Yeah not really.

Don't worry, I will open a thread explaining the tons of mistakes this guide has, but I'm a bit surprised at how you use the same reasoning to say that Nappa's strength was a mistake and that Freezer and Goku aren't.

I mean, if the strength they gave to Nappa was wrong because of what was seen on the manga, the same applies to the one seen on Goku and Freezer. But in the first case you say "the Daizenshuu is wrong" and in the second one you say "the Daizenshuu can't be wrong, so how could you explain what happened?".

I believe that the BPs listed officially for SSJ Goku and Freeza's 100% are for their full power. However, when they fought in those forms they had already taken significant damage, damage that, I believe, couldn't be totally negated by their power up.

The only one that had a power up was Goku, and the damage he took was clearly negated by it. The power Freezer lost wasn't negated by anything, on the other hand, so this guide has even less sense if you consider that.

[rereboy]

The only one that had a power up was Goku, and the damage he took was clearly negated by it. The power Freezer lost wasn't negated by anything, on the other hand, so this guide has even less sense if you consider that.

I said "totally negated". I'm not arguing that most of it wasn't actually negated.

[Kaboom]

Don't worry, I will open a thread explaining the tons of mistakes this guide has

Please don't. You have no idea how old and tiring it gets hearing the same old pointless and misguided protests against the 1% of the guidebooks' contents that people who place too much value on power levels don't like.

[VegettoEX]

Don't worry, I will open a thread explaining the tons of mistakes this guide has

Unless you're completely fluent in Japanese and have sat and read through the entirety of every single guide book on your own completely independent of second-hand research you've done, I would recommend checking out Episode #0265 of our podcast where Herms and I detail some of these things.

This, of course, doesn't include things that people disagree with on principle of their own convoluted power scaling charts, which I'd hardly say are "mistakes".

[TheMightyOzaru]

Your pretentious levels are over 8,000 freezamite. I'm honestly quite tired of seeing your posts. Your opinion doesn't override the Daizenshuu. You're flat out wrong, now get over it.

[Herms]

You know, I think people are being too hard on freezamite. Certainly, I think it's silly to say that the guidebooks "misunderstood the whole manga from top to bottom", since if anything their major fault is devoting most of their space to painfully obvious statements like "Goku is a Saiyan" or "Freeza is really strong". And the function of battle power numbers in the series is to a) sound impressive and b) mislead the bad guys who rely on them. They were never meant to form a particularly coherent system.

But I don't want people who dislike the battle powers given in the guide books to be treated as irredeemable heretics, to be harassed simply for stating their views. It's not going to get us anywhere.

[Kaboom]

I didn't notice this until Herms said something...

Your pretentious levels are over 8,000 freezamite. I'm honestly quite tired of seeing your posts. Your opinion doesn't override the Daizenshuu. You're flat out wrong, now get over it.

... But this is not an acceptable way to address your fellow community members, regardless of what you think of their opinions or attitudes. Please rein it in.