SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
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TheMightyOzaru
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SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Why did Freeza fare so well against Goku, despite the 25% gap? We've seen that even the smallest of gaps leave a lot of room to decimate your opponent in the case of Vegeta vs Dodoria and Zarbon. Was Goku holding back or something?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Because battle powers are bullshit.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Can I get a real answer please -_-?
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Well, Goku had already taken lots of damage before the transformation, and while transforming into a Super Saiyan restored his power, it didn't heal his body. Also, while Freeza could hit Goku some times, it didn't cause him any noticeable damage.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Fair enough.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Haji
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
I just always say Gokuu wants to enjoy the battle to the fullest, taking blows on purpose(maybe). Gokuu was fighting "the strongest in the universe" he let furiza go 100% so he could feel satisfied beating him at his fullest. Look at how the battle ended, Gokuu just defeated him with a energy blast. I think Gokku could have done that the whole time, but wanted a good battle.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
No, he wasn't holding back. He was simply going full force and kicking the shit out of Freeza, completely wrecking him while only getting a few cuts and bruises in turn.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
If he was going all out, he would have finished him in seconds looking at the difference in their powers.RandomGuy96 wrote:No, he wasn't holding back. He was simply going full force and kicking the shit out of Freeza, completely wrecking him while only getting a few cuts and bruises in turn.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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TheGmGoken
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Freeza is a skilled fighter perhaps. So is Goku but Freeza should be able to handle his own. Let's not forget that Goku wanted to see what Freeza 100% was made of.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Yeah, I'm starting to think he's purposely tanking hits to see if he can. I mean look at the way he "killed" Freeza. He bitch beamed him with seemingly little effort.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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RandomGuy96
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Only if you for some reason believe that power levels are an exact science that work on set percentages, even though the series goes out of its way to show that's not true with stuff like Vegeta tanking the kaio-ken x4 Kamehameha and Dodoria dying from one of Vegeta's generic ki blasts.TheMightyOzaru wrote:If he was going all out, he would have finished him in seconds looking at the difference in their powers.RandomGuy96 wrote:No, he wasn't holding back. He was simply going full force and kicking the shit out of Freeza, completely wrecking him while only getting a few cuts and bruises in turn.
In the new BOG movie, how well did Goku do against Beers?
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Goku was also at a 16% disadvantage while Beerus wasn't really trying. a 25% difference seems to be a pretty good lead based on other fights in the series.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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ZombieVito
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Because he isn't at 120 million.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Why did Freeza fare so well against Goku, despite the 25% gap? We've seen that even the smallest of gaps leave a lot of room to decimate your opponent in the case of Vegeta vs Dodoria and Zarbon. Was Goku holding back or something?
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
In your opinion. I find nothing wrong with the whole 150 million vs 120 million thing so I have no reason to disregard the Daizenshuu. I only ever disregard something the Daizenshuu says IF it's outright contradicted by the manga.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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RandomGuy96
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
No... Beers being a 10 to Goku's 6 would mean that Goku was at about 85% of Beers strength in that fight, while Freeza was at 80% of Goku's. And- correct me if I'm wrong- Goku didn't really start doing decently against Beers until after he dropped out of his form and lost power (not a lot, but some). How well did base/SS god power Goku do against 70% Beers? Better than 100% Freeza did against 100% Super Saiyan Goku? Did Beers instantly one-shot Goku at 70% power?TheMightyOzaru wrote:Goku was also at a 16% disadvantage while Beerus wasn't really trying. a 25% difference seems to be a pretty good lead based on other fights in the series.
Again, that only matters if you think power levels are dependent on exact gaps and percentages, which is crap.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Beerus' full power is a 10. 70% of 10 is 7. the difference between 7 and the 6 Toriyama gave Goku is 16%.RandomGuy96 wrote:No... Beers being a 10 to Goku's 6 would mean that Goku was at about 85% of Beers strength in that fight, while Freeza was at 80% of Goku's. And- correct me if I'm wrong- Goku didn't really start doing decently against Beers until after he dropped out of his form and lost power (not a lot, but some). How well did base/SS god power Goku do against 70% Beers? Better than 100% Freeza did against 100% Super Saiyan Goku? Did Beers instantly one-shot Goku at 70% power?TheMightyOzaru wrote:Goku was also at a 16% disadvantage while Beerus wasn't really trying. a 25% difference seems to be a pretty good lead based on other fights in the series.
Again, that only matters if you think power levels are dependent on exact gaps and percentages, which is crap.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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RandomGuy96
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
6 is about 85% of 7.
Base/SS Goku with god power is somewhere below 6.
12 is 80% of 15.
There's not a huge difference in gaps here. And again, how well did Goku do? I'm guessing a lot better than Freeza did against him.
Base/SS Goku with god power is somewhere below 6.
12 is 80% of 15.
There's not a huge difference in gaps here. And again, how well did Goku do? I'm guessing a lot better than Freeza did against him.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
He did okaaaaaaaay.... It was clear Beerus had the advantage.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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RandomGuy96
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Okay. Goku, at some percentage below 85, did okay against Beers despite Beers clearly winning. I'm going to guess it wasn't a total curbstomp?TheMightyOzaru wrote:He did okaaaaaaaay.... It was clear Beerus had the advantage.
Because that's what Goku vs Freeza basically was. Freeza landed an energy attack which kept Goku down for a minute and gave him some bruises, plus one or two other hits that only succeeded in busting Goku's lip and pissing him off. So yeah, Freeza got in 2-3 good shots that were comparable to the blows Goku landed on him. He tried to land other hits, but Goku either dodged or tank them. In return, Goku crushes Freeza's hand (causing Freeza to scream in pain), punches him so hard he causes Freeza's ribs to puncture his lung, headbutts him, and lands something like 5-6 punches and kicks, with Freeza bleeding from every other hit. At the end of the fight, Freeza is so crushed that he has trouble even standing up. All that happened in a couple of minutes.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: SSJ Goku vs 100% Freeza
Even though I think SOME of the hits Goku let himself get hit just so see what Freeza could really do. I'm going have to side with Random. TheMightyOzaru you're putting way to much thought into Power levels and gaps between them. The major point is Goku was stronger. Ignore the gaps for a moment. Goku was the better man and it was quite evident. Don't put to much thought into power levels because let's be honest they are useless. It's cool to use them to make comparison or state numbers but to be fair I doubt Toriyama even cared about the gap in every single power levels.