Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

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Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by SuperSaiyan2 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:39 pm

No I'm not trying to advertise my video, but all of my thoughts on this topic are contained in it. Let me know if you agree or disagree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClzQrQTyBWk

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by ABED » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:57 pm

I don't buy 250k. It's too high. Goku goes through hellacious training for several days and Vegeta gets his ass kicked twice, yet somehow he's stronger? Don't buy it.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by SuperSaiyan2 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:04 pm

When you think about it though, Goku made more insane gains in those six days than Vegeta did on Namek.

8000 -> 90 000 = 11.25x gain

30 000 -> 250 000 = 8.333x gain

So really Goku gained more than Vegeta would have. Not to mention his Kaioken x10 puts him up to 900 000, which he said he could handle comfortably.
Last edited by SuperSaiyan2 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by Herms » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:11 pm

ABED wrote:Goku goes through hellacious training for several days and Vegeta gets his ass kicked twice, yet somehow he's stronger?
He really isn't stronger though, since 180,000 is just Goku's BP while using a regular Kaio-Ken, and he can go up to x10 at this point, which would presumably put him at 900,000. Goku even tells Ginyu that his 180,000 BP is peanuts compared to what he can really do.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by ABED » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:12 pm

Yes, Goku did make huge gains, but he was training under extremely harsh conditions. The extra gravity would accelerate his training. Vegeta just got cheap power ups necessary for the story. It make NO sense that Vegeta would go from being child's play for Reacoom to twice as strong as Ginyu after being beaten up by Reacoom. Please stop with the math, Power levels/battle powers are illogical.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by Godo » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:15 pm

If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by ABED » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:19 pm

Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
Yet another power up that I don't buy. Again, forget about power levels, they are ridiculous.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by SuperSaiyan2 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:20 pm

Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
Exactly this. Gains are inconsistent, often plot driven. So there is no reason to believe that Vegeta cannot be 250k.

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:21 pm

ABED wrote:
Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
Yet another power up that I don't buy. Again, forget about power levels, they are ridiculous.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by ABED » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:27 pm

Fine, he's 250k but that's because of how ridiculous the power ups are. Even if Vegeta is 250k, then Freeza must be placating him in his first form because that looks like Freeza's struggling, which of course doesn't make sense given how strong Freeza is even in that form.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by SuperSaiyan2 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:31 pm

ABED wrote:Fine, he's 250k but that's because of how ridiculous the power ups are. Even if Vegeta is 250k, then Freeza must be placating him in his first form because that looks like Freeza's struggling, which of course doesn't make sense given how strong Freeza is even in that form.
Or Vegeta further power up by taking that nap. Perhaps he was just exhausted prior to the nap? Vegeta could have easily gone up to 450 000, considering how he said he could beat Freeza with the help of Gohan and Krillin.

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by ABED » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:41 pm

SuperSaiyan2 wrote:
ABED wrote:Fine, he's 250k but that's because of how ridiculous the power ups are. Even if Vegeta is 250k, then Freeza must be placating him in his first form because that looks like Freeza's struggling, which of course doesn't make sense given how strong Freeza is even in that form.
Or Vegeta further power up by taking that nap. Perhaps he was just exhausted prior to the nap? Vegeta could have easily gone up to 450 000, considering how he said he could beat Freeza with the help of Gohan and Krillin.
Even if he's 450,000, Freeza is 530,000. Nappa toyed with the Z fighters even though that gap was much smaller. Gohan and Kuririn would be of little help against Freeza unless of course Gohan's power jumped even more massively than Vegeta's because he was much weaker than Vegeta.

Vegeta got the crap kicked out of him on Earth and that was only worth a 6k power up? Like I said, the math doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:50 pm

That's because the power-up's aren't supposed to be consistent.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by ABED » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:51 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:That's because the power-up's aren't supposed to be consistent.
Only because Toriyama was making up the rules as he went along.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by freezamite » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:31 pm

ABED wrote:
Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
Yet another power up that I don't buy. Again, forget about power levels, they are ridiculous.
Well, Goku was at 300,000 in my opinion, but not that this matters much though. Even from 90.000 to 300.000 and Vegeta's increase from 30.000-40.000 to 200.000+ are absolutely huge, but since the "Zenkay" was never described, it can't be said it was an incoherence.

Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by Logan » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:45 pm

freezamite wrote: Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
Along with characters in every saga saying "His power is unlike anything I've ever felt!" Without fail you will hear someone say that at some point. It's one of my qualms with Dragon Ball in general. Can't characters just be formidable in their own right without having to be more "powerful" than the last? Mr. Freeze and Clayface may be stronger than the Joker, but the Joker still gives Batman a run for his money in his own way.

The only equivalent for the Dragon Ball shows that you could argue is perhaps Vegeta.
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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by freezamite » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:09 pm

Logan wrote:
freezamite wrote: Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
Along with characters in every saga saying "His power is unlike anything I've ever felt!" Without fail you will hear someone say that at some point. It's one of my qualms with Dragon Ball in general. Can't characters just be formidable in their own right without having to be more "powerful" than the last? Mr. Freeze and Clayface may be stronger than the Joker, but the Joker still gives Batman a run for his money in his own way.

The only equivalent for the Dragon Ball shows that you could argue is perhaps Vegeta.
Well, there were some exceptions with characters that compensated their lack of power like guldo and his time-manipulating ability or Ginyu and his body-transfer capability. Otherwise, as you say, against Vegeta the outcome of the fight was decided despite the difference on power, and also the fight against Freezer (even if Freezer was defeated thanks to Goku becoming stronger, the fight was decided thanks to Freezer being badly injured and it also had the power exhausting factor) or Vegeta vs Zarbon round 2 (Zarbon was still stronger but was defeated thanks to Vegeta's trick of throwing him sand in the eyes) were affected by those factors.

That being said, in DB all revolved around power and if there was a big enough difference even some of the most impressive strategies were completely useless because of that.

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by Draken » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:54 pm

freezamite wrote:
ABED wrote:
Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
Yet another power up that I don't buy. Again, forget about power levels, they are ridiculous.
Well, Goku was at 300,000 in my opinion, but not that this matters much though. Even from 90.000 to 300.000 and Vegeta's increase from 30.000-40.000 to 200.000+ are absolutely huge, but since the "Zenkay" was never described, it can't be said it was an incoherence.

Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
Zenkai.

If he was 300,000 then why was calmly walking not KK'd Goku a shockingly powerful person to Piccolo and Vegeta, both of whom were easily above 1 million?

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by freezamite » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:41 am

Draken wrote:
freezamite wrote:Well, Goku was at 300,000 in my opinion, but not that this matters much though. Even from 90.000 to 300.000 and Vegeta's increase from 30.000-40.000 to 200.000+ are absolutely huge, but since the "Zenkay" was never described, it can't be said it was an incoherence.

Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
Zenkai.

If he was 300,000 then why was calmly walking not KK'd Goku a shockingly powerful person to Piccolo and Vegeta, both of whom were easily above 1 million?
As I said in another thread, Goku was already KK'd at that point in my opinion. KKx10 aura was never drawn on the manga at any point of the fight, so it had to be activated before the fight started for it to be coherent through the whole fight.

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Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:59 am

ABED wrote:Yes, Goku did make huge gains, but he was training under extremely harsh conditions. The extra gravity would accelerate his training. Vegeta just got cheap power ups necessary for the story. It make NO sense that Vegeta would go from being child's play for Reacoom to twice as strong as Ginyu after being beaten up by Reacoom. Please stop with the math, Power levels/battle powers are illogical.
Goku went from 8.000 to 90.000 after getting 5 near-death power-ups & training intensely from 20g up to 100g for a week, but one near death power-up made him jump to 3.000.000. It's obvious that the near-death power-ups are random.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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