Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
- SuperSaiyan2
- Not-So-Newbie
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:14 am
- Contact:
Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
No I'm not trying to advertise my video, but all of my thoughts on this topic are contained in it. Let me know if you agree or disagree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClzQrQTyBWk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClzQrQTyBWk
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
I don't buy 250k. It's too high. Goku goes through hellacious training for several days and Vegeta gets his ass kicked twice, yet somehow he's stronger? Don't buy it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- SuperSaiyan2
- Not-So-Newbie
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:14 am
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
When you think about it though, Goku made more insane gains in those six days than Vegeta did on Namek.
8000 -> 90 000 = 11.25x gain
30 000 -> 250 000 = 8.333x gain
So really Goku gained more than Vegeta would have. Not to mention his Kaioken x10 puts him up to 900 000, which he said he could handle comfortably.
8000 -> 90 000 = 11.25x gain
30 000 -> 250 000 = 8.333x gain
So really Goku gained more than Vegeta would have. Not to mention his Kaioken x10 puts him up to 900 000, which he said he could handle comfortably.
Last edited by SuperSaiyan2 on Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Herms
- Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
- Posts: 10550
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:40 pm
- Location: Jupiter
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
He really isn't stronger though, since 180,000 is just Goku's BP while using a regular Kaio-Ken, and he can go up to x10 at this point, which would presumably put him at 900,000. Goku even tells Ginyu that his 180,000 BP is peanuts compared to what he can really do.ABED wrote:Goku goes through hellacious training for several days and Vegeta gets his ass kicked twice, yet somehow he's stronger?
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Yes, Goku did make huge gains, but he was training under extremely harsh conditions. The extra gravity would accelerate his training. Vegeta just got cheap power ups necessary for the story. It make NO sense that Vegeta would go from being child's play for Reacoom to twice as strong as Ginyu after being beaten up by Reacoom. Please stop with the math, Power levels/battle powers are illogical.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Yet another power up that I don't buy. Again, forget about power levels, they are ridiculous.Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- SuperSaiyan2
- Not-So-Newbie
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:14 am
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Exactly this. Gains are inconsistent, often plot driven. So there is no reason to believe that Vegeta cannot be 250k.Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
- Kamiccolo9
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 10353
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
- Location: Regensburg, Germany
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Whether you like it or not, they exist in Dragon Ball. There's no reason to just ignore them if you don't want to.ABED wrote:Yet another power up that I don't buy. Again, forget about power levels, they are ridiculous.Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Fine, he's 250k but that's because of how ridiculous the power ups are. Even if Vegeta is 250k, then Freeza must be placating him in his first form because that looks like Freeza's struggling, which of course doesn't make sense given how strong Freeza is even in that form.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- SuperSaiyan2
- Not-So-Newbie
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:14 am
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Or Vegeta further power up by taking that nap. Perhaps he was just exhausted prior to the nap? Vegeta could have easily gone up to 450 000, considering how he said he could beat Freeza with the help of Gohan and Krillin.ABED wrote:Fine, he's 250k but that's because of how ridiculous the power ups are. Even if Vegeta is 250k, then Freeza must be placating him in his first form because that looks like Freeza's struggling, which of course doesn't make sense given how strong Freeza is even in that form.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Even if he's 450,000, Freeza is 530,000. Nappa toyed with the Z fighters even though that gap was much smaller. Gohan and Kuririn would be of little help against Freeza unless of course Gohan's power jumped even more massively than Vegeta's because he was much weaker than Vegeta.SuperSaiyan2 wrote:Or Vegeta further power up by taking that nap. Perhaps he was just exhausted prior to the nap? Vegeta could have easily gone up to 450 000, considering how he said he could beat Freeza with the help of Gohan and Krillin.ABED wrote:Fine, he's 250k but that's because of how ridiculous the power ups are. Even if Vegeta is 250k, then Freeza must be placating him in his first form because that looks like Freeza's struggling, which of course doesn't make sense given how strong Freeza is even in that form.
Vegeta got the crap kicked out of him on Earth and that was only worth a 6k power up? Like I said, the math doesn't make any sense.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- Super Saiyan Turlast x4
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3405
- Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:45 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
That's because the power-up's aren't supposed to be consistent.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Only because Toriyama was making up the rules as he went along.Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:That's because the power-up's aren't supposed to be consistent.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- freezamite
- Banned
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:57 pm
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Well, Goku was at 300,000 in my opinion, but not that this matters much though. Even from 90.000 to 300.000 and Vegeta's increase from 30.000-40.000 to 200.000+ are absolutely huge, but since the "Zenkay" was never described, it can't be said it was an incoherence.ABED wrote:Yet another power up that I don't buy. Again, forget about power levels, they are ridiculous.Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Along with characters in every saga saying "His power is unlike anything I've ever felt!" Without fail you will hear someone say that at some point. It's one of my qualms with Dragon Ball in general. Can't characters just be formidable in their own right without having to be more "powerful" than the last? Mr. Freeze and Clayface may be stronger than the Joker, but the Joker still gives Batman a run for his money in his own way.freezamite wrote: Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
The only equivalent for the Dragon Ball shows that you could argue is perhaps Vegeta.
There is no Dragon Ball canon.
- freezamite
- Banned
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:57 pm
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Well, there were some exceptions with characters that compensated their lack of power like guldo and his time-manipulating ability or Ginyu and his body-transfer capability. Otherwise, as you say, against Vegeta the outcome of the fight was decided despite the difference on power, and also the fight against Freezer (even if Freezer was defeated thanks to Goku becoming stronger, the fight was decided thanks to Freezer being badly injured and it also had the power exhausting factor) or Vegeta vs Zarbon round 2 (Zarbon was still stronger but was defeated thanks to Vegeta's trick of throwing him sand in the eyes) were affected by those factors.Logan wrote:Along with characters in every saga saying "His power is unlike anything I've ever felt!" Without fail you will hear someone say that at some point. It's one of my qualms with Dragon Ball in general. Can't characters just be formidable in their own right without having to be more "powerful" than the last? Mr. Freeze and Clayface may be stronger than the Joker, but the Joker still gives Batman a run for his money in his own way.freezamite wrote: Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
The only equivalent for the Dragon Ball shows that you could argue is perhaps Vegeta.
That being said, in DB all revolved around power and if there was a big enough difference even some of the most impressive strategies were completely useless because of that.
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Zenkai.freezamite wrote:Well, Goku was at 300,000 in my opinion, but not that this matters much though. Even from 90.000 to 300.000 and Vegeta's increase from 30.000-40.000 to 200.000+ are absolutely huge, but since the "Zenkay" was never described, it can't be said it was an incoherence.ABED wrote:Yet another power up that I don't buy. Again, forget about power levels, they are ridiculous.Godo wrote:If Goku went from 8,000 to 90,000 from hellish training to later 3,000,000 after his body got beat up once, then Vegeta could power up a lot as well in my opinion.
Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
If he was 300,000 then why was calmly walking not KK'd Goku a shockingly powerful person to Piccolo and Vegeta, both of whom were easily above 1 million?
- freezamite
- Banned
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:57 pm
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
As I said in another thread, Goku was already KK'd at that point in my opinion. KKx10 aura was never drawn on the manga at any point of the fight, so it had to be activated before the fight started for it to be coherent through the whole fight.Draken wrote:Zenkai.freezamite wrote:Well, Goku was at 300,000 in my opinion, but not that this matters much though. Even from 90.000 to 300.000 and Vegeta's increase from 30.000-40.000 to 200.000+ are absolutely huge, but since the "Zenkay" was never described, it can't be said it was an incoherence.
Power level was Toriyama's way to hype characters, so he more or less did what he wanted with those numbers XD
If he was 300,000 then why was calmly walking not KK'd Goku a shockingly powerful person to Piccolo and Vegeta, both of whom were easily above 1 million?
- DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Re: Vegeta power level at Ginyu/Jeice
Goku went from 8.000 to 90.000 after getting 5 near-death power-ups & training intensely from 20g up to 100g for a week, but one near death power-up made him jump to 3.000.000. It's obvious that the near-death power-ups are random.ABED wrote:Yes, Goku did make huge gains, but he was training under extremely harsh conditions. The extra gravity would accelerate his training. Vegeta just got cheap power ups necessary for the story. It make NO sense that Vegeta would go from being child's play for Reacoom to twice as strong as Ginyu after being beaten up by Reacoom. Please stop with the math, Power levels/battle powers are illogical.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.