FP-ASSJ Goku?

[Great Saiyaman]

OK I know Toriyama's intension was for Gohan to be the hero.

But since FPSSJ is just a stronger less energy consuing SSJ (not a different form), wouldn't it be possible for Goku to simply just go ASSJ (like Vegeta), gain more power but not lose speed & defeat Cell?

[desirecampbell]

"Full Power Super-Saiyan" is not a new level, it's just "getting used to it" in the sme way Goku uses weighted clothes.
It was possible for Goku to transform to USSj 1 and USSj 2 (see here) but he believed it would be less effective.

[Mike D]

Yes, it was possible for Goku to defeat Cell, but he wanted to see Gohan ascend to Super Super Saiyan or SSJ2.

The reason being was that the purpose for Vegeta and Goku's training was to surpass the level of Super Saiyan. Vegeta believed that the next level was indeed USSJ as did Goku until he noticed the flaws in speed. Goku knew that this was not the full ascension that he and Vegeta was searching for, but merely upgrades of the original Super Saiyan form. He saw that Gohan had to power to fully ascend to SSJ2 and knew that the only way it would be drawn forth would be through battle. Therefore he allowed Cell to fight Gohan.

[Bejiita]

Goku was not strong enough to take Cell on, whereas if he would have gone USSJ2 he would have had more power, however no real speed. So he wouldn't have one, Goku already saw Gohan going SSJ2 in the Time Chamber, so that's why he put him against Cell.

[Chaos Saiyajin]

Goku was not strong enough to take Cell on, whereas if he would have gone USSJ2 he would have had more power, however no real speed. So he wouldn't have one, Goku already saw Gohan going SSJ2 in the Time Chamber, so that's why he put him against Cell.

Yeah, becuase if I remember correctly, Trunks had the power to defeat Cell also, but because of the increased muscle mass he was a hell of a lot slower than Cell.

[Duo]

Allow me to break it down for you.

Trunks, in his Uber-buffed out form, had a greater Chi than Cell...that is, Cell who had not powered up at all. "Base" Cell if you will.

When Son Goku went to full power against Cell, his Chi surpassed Trunks by quite a bit. Cell, also, because he "powered up" and took on the same fiery white Super Saiyan aura as Goku. They both outstripped Uber-Buff Trunks Chi.

Son Gohan, when he went to Full Power (Not Super Saiyan 2) surpassed Goku. Cell confirms this for us after seeing him power up. During their exchange, Cell is forced to increase his speed, but Gohan does little to fight back, and explains he doesn't want to fight. At one point, he does throw a single kick back at Cell, which knocks him right down on his butt.

When Son Gohan unleashes his rage and goes "Super Saiyan 2" he...is utterly beyond them all. Cell later powers up even further to reach his full power. I can tell you that at his point his Chi makes Trunks look like nothing.

So no, Trunks was not superior to anything but a Cell who had not powered up in the least.

[Chaos Saiyajin]

Allow me to break it down for you.

Trunks, in his Uber-buffed out form, had a greater Chi than Cell...that is, Cell who had not powered up at all. "Base" Cell if you will.

When Son Goku went to full power against Cell, his Chi surpassed Trunks by quite a bit. Cell, also, because he "powered up" and took on the same fiery white Super Saiyan aura as Goku. They both outstripped Uber-Buff Trunks Chi.

Son Gohan, when he went to Full Power (Not Super Saiyan 2) surpassed Goku. Cell confirms this for us after seeing him power up. During their exchange, Cell is forced to increase his speed, but Gohan does little to fight back, and explains he doesn't want to fight. At one point, he does throw a single kick back at Cell, which knocks him right down on his butt.

When Son Gohan unleashes his rage and goes "Super Saiyan 2" he...is utterly beyond them all. Cell later powers up even further to reach his full power. I can tell you that at his point his Chi makes Trunks look like nothing.

So no, Trunks was not superior to anything but a Cell who had not powered up in the least.

Thanks for clearing that up, Duo! So now we can atleast all agree that Goku was weaker than Cell, right?

[Gamingdevil]

Allow me to break it down for you.

Trunks, in his Uber-buffed out form, had a greater Chi than Cell...that is, Cell who had not powered up at all. "Base" Cell if you will.

When Son Goku went to full power against Cell, his Chi surpassed Trunks by quite a bit. Cell, also, because he "powered up" and took on the same fiery white Super Saiyan aura as Goku. They both outstripped Uber-Buff Trunks Chi.

Son Gohan, when he went to Full Power (Not Super Saiyan 2) surpassed Goku. Cell confirms this for us after seeing him power up. During their exchange, Cell is forced to increase his speed, but Gohan does little to fight back, and explains he doesn't want to fight. At one point, he does throw a single kick back at Cell, which knocks him right down on his butt.

When Son Gohan unleashes his rage and goes "Super Saiyan 2" he...is utterly beyond them all. Cell later powers up even further to reach his full power. I can tell you that at his point his Chi makes Trunks look like nothing.

So no, Trunks was not superior to anything but a Cell who had not powered up in the least.

Thanks for clearing that up, Duo! So now we can atleast all agree that Goku was weaker than Cell, right?

Indeed. If Goku ever stood a chance it was because Cell hadn't fully powered up. (He might've had a chance if you had taken a Senzu Bean, when Cell was worn out and he caught him by surprise)

[Dayspring]

Plus Goku told everybody he was weaker at Kami's palace, had said fact confirmed by Karin... Where did "Goku's stronger than Cell!" come from? During the 25th budoukai he and Vegeta had indeed surpassed Cell, but not prior.

[Mike D]

Plus Goku told everybody he was weaker at Kami's palace, had said fact confirmed by Karin... Where did "Goku's stronger than Cell!" come from? During the 25th budoukai he and Vegeta had indeed surpassed Cell, but not prior.

Wait, are you saying that it wasn't possible for Goku to defeat Cell, or that Goku was weaker than Cell?

[Bejiita]

I think Goku actually couldn't beat Cell. He's power below and he was actually weakening, he said himself eating a Senzu would be pointlless, he'd just go back to square 1, he didn't just happen to want Gohan to be the hero, he knew that was he only option left, he knew the only way he could beat Cell was by reaching the 'next level' (SSJ2) and that he couldn't do in the time given, but Gohan could.

He realised Gohan was far above everyone else, and he's always had this power laying dormant in him, which even the Great Elder from Namek couldn't not fully bring out, and Goku realised this was the time to do it. It was now or never.

[Great Saiyaman]

It didn't seem like the increase in Cell's power was that great, when Vegeta went ASSJ his power multiplied by quite a lot, Goku wouldn;t buff up like USSJ Trunks, only ASSJ (or USSJ1).

Goku already saw Gohan going SSJ2 in the Time Chamber, so that's why he put him against

That's a filler.

[Eclipse]

It didn't seem like the increase in Cell's power was that great, when Vegeta went ASSJ his power multiplied by quite a lot, Goku wouldn;t buff up like USSJ Trunks, only ASSJ (or USSJ1).

Goku already saw Gohan going SSJ2 in the Time Chamber, so that's why he put him against

That's a filler.

Not exactly. True, the scene where Gohan attempts to transform is filler, but his intentions are the same, as explained in one of the chapters.

True, ASSJ would increase your muscle mass, but not enough to slow down your speed. Therefore, it wouldn't be enough to finish Cell.

Plus Cell was not taking it seriously during his fight with Goku..

[Great Saiyaman]

True, ASSJ would increase your muscle mass, but not enough to slow down your speed. Therefore, it wouldn't be enough to finish Cell.

What does that prove?

Not exactly. True, the scene where Gohan attempts to transform is filler, but his intentions are the same, as explained in one of the chapters.

Which one?