How fast is Goku?

[flashback0180]

How fast is Goku?

I never thought Goku could move (physically travel, not teleport) (at) light speed, but after seeing Screw Attack's calculation for Goku...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA

Shouldn't he be faster, using their calculation? According to them Goku at SSJ4 can reach 2.4 times the speed of light.

In Dragon Ball Goku was practically invisible because he was moving too fast. To do that you have to be faster than sound.

According to the YouTube channel vsauce it takes 1 penta second for the retina to respond to a beam of light so anything moving faster will just create an after image like an illusion.

Doesn't that mean ACCORDING TO SCIENCE, Goku was faster than light in Dragon Ball itself?!

I know kid/teen Goku is not that fast but if you use physics he is.

[Kamiccolo9]

The series is inconsistent. The audience couldn't see Roshi and Krillin, yet years later, they could follow Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks.

Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't even bother. It'll just give you a headache.

[Darkprince410]

Take into account though that, traveling at arguably max speed, it still took Goku with a battle power of over 8,000 over a day to reach Enma's after leaving Kaiou's planet. That's over a day for less than a million kilometers, given that we know that Serpent Road is a million kilometers long, and Goku was traveling in a straight light, bypassing many of the coils, and therefore bypassing portions of that million.

Just for the sake of a range, let's say that he bypassed 50% of the distance in 24 hours (I know it was more than 24, but let's work with that).

That puts him at 20,833.33 (repeating) km/hr, or only about 5.8 km/sec. Assuming that the air in the afterlife is of the same normal temperature and density as that on Earth (Goku, when alive, didn't seem to have any issues with it), sound would likely travel at about 1,234 kilometers/hr, or 0.3 km/sec.

That would put Goku at roughly 19 times the speed of sound with that estimate, but still well short of the speed of light, which is approximately 300,000 km/sec. He would need to be traveling over 51,000 times faster, given that estimate, in order to be able to travel at the speed of light, which would require a battle power (assuming a linear progression in speed) of over 410,000,000.

As said though, it took him over a day's time, and it's hard to say just how much of the one million kilometers he bypassed by going in a straight line rather than following each coil, so it's very possible that he traveled even less than half.

Regardless, it's safe to say that he's nowhere near the speed of light, let alone exceeding it, in Dragonball.

[flashback0180]

Regardless, it's safe to say that he's nowhere near the speed of light, let alone exceeding it, in Dragonball.

This is where it gets interesting ,In dragonball goku only learned to fly at the end of Dragon Ball. Flight solely dependent KI .
Gohon explains this to Videl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9lHicT-U2w

Flight in DBZ is nothing more than pushing up the energy(KI) from the body.

KI runs out faster when flying ,thats why goku ran/jump through the rest of snake way.





And Snake Way was huge ,You can't just sprint at full speed like a 10 second dash (and fall tired). It needs to be run like a marathon with lot of energy reserve..to make it to the end.


Hence combat on ground or simple reaction moment is much faster than FLIGHT SPEED.

Well what do you guys think??

[Kamiccolo9]

Hence combat on ground or simple reaction moment is much faster than FLIGHT SPEED.

Well what do you guys think??

I say that Nappa couldn't see Goku when he rushed in and saved Gohan, yet plenty of normal people were perfectly capable of watching SSJ Goten and Trunks duking it out at the Budokai.

[mmg86]

Hence combat on ground or simple reaction moment is much faster than FLIGHT SPEED.

Well what do you guys think??

That the characters are equally fast no matter what they are doing. Think about it. If the characters were faster on the ground, why would they always fight while flying? Why wouldnt we ever have a scene where a "weaker" character lands and starts blitzing someone who was more powerful but still in midair? Keep in mind that you are suggesting a speed diference not in the dozens... not in the hundreds... but in the thousands, MINIMUM. The distance argument makes even less sense, considering at the speed of light, you are moving 300000 km per second. Thus you would be arguing that the DB characters have such poor stamina that they are exhausted in a fraction of a fraction of a second. When we know their fights last several minutes, not an instant.

The truth of the matter is that speed was completely random in the manga. Toriyama never gave any of the distances and time in his manga a thought. I mean, come on, you have Buu Saga Base Gohan needing 20 minutes to fly 1000 kilometers. That makes him slower than Tao Pai Pai, who could toss a pillar (and catch up to it) that he could travel on top of, 4600 km in less than 30 minutes... DB was a gag manga back then, it doesnt count? Well, that speed is still far slower than Goku in his Snake Way return trip.

The only thing we know about DB speed is "the characters have superhuman speed". Other than that, the best we have to go on is the final measurable speed feat of the manga, that thankfully was also the one performed by the most powerful character. Super Saiyan Gotenks. We know anyone less powerful is slower, and anyone more powerful is faster than that.

[Polyphase Avatron]

He's exactly as fast or as slow as the plot requires him to be.

[Darkprince410]

Regardless, it's safe to say that he's nowhere near the speed of light, let alone exceeding it, in Dragonball.

This is where it gets interesting ,In dragonball goku only learned to fly at the end of Dragon Ball. Flight solely dependent KI .
Gohon explains this to Videl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9lHicT-U2w

Flight in DBZ is nothing more than pushing up the energy(KI) from the body.

KI runs out faster when flying ,thats why goku ran/jump through the rest of snake way.





And Snake Way was huge ,You can't just sprint at full speed like a 10 second dash (and fall tired). It needs to be run like a marathon with lot of energy reserve..to make it to the end.


Hence combat on ground or simple reaction moment is much faster than FLIGHT SPEED.

Well what do you guys think??

I'm referring to his return from Kaiou's to Enma's, not his initial run from Enma's to Kaiou's. There's no indication that he stopped, no indication that he slowed down or needed to catch his breath. He was shown flying and jumping in a straight line the entire way back, but it still took him over a day. Kaiou even estimated it would take him two days to make the trip, but he exceeded Kaiou's expectations by making it in little over one. The manga cuts back to him repeatedly during his return trip, and he's pushing himself to go faster and faster every time it does. He ran himself near empty pushing himself along the way, which is why he needed the Senzu to restore himself. Nevertheless, there's no indication that he stopped or slowed down once.

[The Monkey King]

As fast as the plot requires/As fast as you want him to be.

[flashback0180]

Hence combat on ground or simple reaction moment is much faster than FLIGHT SPEED.

Well what do you guys think??

I say that Nappa couldn't see Goku when he rushed in and saved Gohan, yet plenty of normal people were perfectly capable of watching SSJ Goten and Trunks duking it out at the Budokai.

I had to watch the video again (been a while).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skk6MBoejgU


1:40-

Most of the fight was done in the air while they were staying stilland throwing punches , There are moment where both Goten and Trunks disappear completely (Truks even uses the after image Technic).
You can notice they show the audience expression every time they fight standing/staying still(3:50-4:01).
(7:34) Trunks is completely invisible as he is moving too fast (just like in kid Goku dragon ball world tournament) ...Then performs the full nelson Technic(7:59) thats the only time the audience comment about the fight.(that and the when they thought KI was rockets).

They even say they are moving too fast that they cant take photos of the fight.

So ,We don't know what they(normal people) were able to see.




.....It's really like as fast as the plot needs him/them to be, I mean Kid Goku was fast as lightning and lightning clocks at 87,000 MILES PER SECOND (ACCORDING TO THE GUINNESS BOOK OF ANSWERS).

Light moves at 181,000 miles per/sec.

[Darkprince410]

Remember, the anime likes to embellish on their "speed" for the sake of dramatic effect, so It's not really good to use just what is seen in the anime as evidence, when more direct information, such as the aforementioned Serpent Road. That gives a relative distance to time ratio that we can at least work with to determine speed.

[VegettoEX]

He's exactly as fast or as slow as the plot requires him to be.

As fast as the plot requires/As fast as you want him to be.

While I agree with the both of you, keep in mind that this is the "In-Universe" section of the forum, and as such, these kinds of discussions heavily/exclusively rely on folks discussing things from... well, an in-universe perspective. Answering with things like "Toriyama" or "plot", while fine in other discussions, really aren't appropriate here, and are dismissive/borderline-sarcastic responses that are not worth making.

[Kakarot88]

There are varying points of view, but as I see it the best way to determine speed for a battle is to actually look at fight speed and not long distance travel speed or traverse speed. Here's what I mean: the warriors in the Dragon Ball series fight in "bursts." This idea is discussed by the warriors as early as Kuririn and Goku's first training with Kamesenin when they do the meter dashes. It is emphasized in every other succeeding arc and explicitly discussed and detailed by Tenshinhan when Goku multi punches Kuririn out of the ring but it looks like a single blow, as well as when Goku is facing off against Ginyu and Jeice is reading Goku's battle power, and when Piccolo takes on Dr. Gero. These are but a few of the multitude of instances.

Moreover, in the manga it is clear that the serpentine road events are more feats of stamina than speed. Goku on the way to Kaio is only able to fly partially there ("it uses up too much of his ki" so he must run a lot of the way too) and it takes 6 months for Goku to arrive, while on the return flight Goku not only flies back the entire way but has also become faster so much so that he even exceeds Kaio's expectations. The point there is to show Goku's progress, and that not even Kaio could predict his potential as well as show that Goku's stamina had increased considerably as he was only winded by the time he returned. Further the whole point of using Kinto-un to go meet Earth's invaders was to conserve stamina as it was just shown Goku could move at speeds massively faster than mach 50 depending on what you see Goku covering when he flies back [there's no way really to tell] (Mach 50? see Arale keeping up with Kinto-un in early Dragon Ball which is where Chozenshuu 1 gets that figure which comes from I believe Daizenshu 4).

SO in terms of speed it depends on what you want to know...burst fighting power is what is more relevant for discussing fights. After all that's the entire point of all the explanations of how the crowds at the Tenkaichi Budokai's are unable to see everything (ie Jackie Chun v. Kuririn). Additionally, an inability to see fighters because of their new found speed is a theme that carries over the entire series, and from the first chapter we see Goku is able to dodge and see bullets (objects that lack ki).

After all if traverse speed mattered why then did Kami not warp Goku to the Battle Field when he just teleported Goku between Heavan and Earth (ostensibly because he can only travel between worlds)? Why then did Popo not warp Goku to the Battle field on his carpet? Also, does it really seem plausible that Kuririn could get to Babidi's spaceship quicker than two pint sized super saiyans?
But hey if you really want to get ridiculous just use the filler from when Goku is traveling to Namek and pushes his ship away from a star with a Kamehameha and dodges asteroids while his ship is hurtling through space

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I've always accepted that everyone in the DBZ universe above basic human can move at light speeds in combat at most and they can react with almost if not instant reflexes when counter attacking or dodging close range attacks... though even that has always been inconsistant.

[mmg86]

I've always accepted that everyone in the DBZ universe above basic human can move at light speeds in combat at most and they can react with almost if not instant reflexes when counter attacking or dodging close range attacks... though even that has always been inconsistant.

What the... for real? You mean that you hold the belief that even Nam can move at speeds roughly 30 million times greater than the regular person?

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I've always accepted that everyone in the DBZ universe above basic human can move at light speeds in combat at most and they can react with almost if not instant reflexes when counter attacking or dodging close range attacks... though even that has always been inconsistant.

What the... for real? You mean that you hold the belief that even Nam can move at speeds roughly 30 million times greater than the regular person?

I dont know about Nam but more so the aliens can. Theoretically. It might be a mistake to compare reality to DB but from my logic, the fact that they can create after images must mean they can move faster than field light bouncing off them while their images remain in the air.
Its impossible to gauge anything in DB because there is no basis to go off from; but I do think these characters can at peak can move faster than light.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I've always accepted that everyone in the DBZ universe above basic human can move at light speeds in combat at most and they can react with almost if not instant reflexes when counter attacking or dodging close range attacks... though even that has always been inconsistant.

What the... for real? You mean that you hold the belief that even Nam can move at speeds roughly 30 million times greater than the regular person?

I dont know about Nam but more so the aliens can. Theoretically. It might be a mistake to compare reality to DB but from my logic, the fact that they can create after images must mean they can move faster than field light bouncing off them while their images remain in the air.
Its impossible to gauge anything in DB because there is no basis to go off from; but I do think these characters can at peak can move faster than light.

Actually after images like that are just a common art trope to show fast movement, especially in anime/manga. It doesn't really indicate how fast they are realistically, other than "pretty fast".

[valfranx]

according to a guide manga (dragon ball the legend of manga), they move at lightspeed in combat.

piccolo:

bakuretsu makoho:
similar to the kamehameha, this technique allows throw a lethal beam of light of hand.
It is a terribly powerful technique that can even erase a city of the map in a single attack.

kaikosen with eyes. allows throw beams of light from both eyes. has more accuracy but less destructive power.

Freeza:

this beam of light emitted from her fingers was so fast that no one could see him.

freeza throws a ball of energy with the intention of destroying Namek. Despite its small size concentrated a huge amount of energy

dr.gero:

can throw light destructive with his eyes, an energy different from goku and other warriors.

[Darkprince410]

Saying they're a beam of light is just used as an expression and description really, because that's the easiest way of describing them, so you can't really use that as established fact. I mean, in Dragonball, Popo's training was to allow for movement as fast as lightning, which is nearly 20 times the speed I estimated Goku's over 8,000 battle power. A lot of these "feats" are exaggerated in one form or another, whereas with Serpent Road and the time frame we're given that he ran back from Kaiou's to Enma's from, we get a more accurate idea of Goku's speed at the time, which in turn either serves to retcon any older discrepancies, or shows that they're exaggerations and not to be taken at face value.

[valfranx]

Saying they're a beam of light is just used as an expression and description really, because that's the easiest way of describing them, so you can't really use that as established fact. I mean, in Dragonball, Popo's training was to allow for movement as fast as lightning, which is nearly 20 times the speed I estimated Goku's over 8,000 battle power. A lot of these "feats" are exaggerated in one form or another, whereas with Serpent Road and the time frame we're given that he ran back from Kaiou's to Enma's from, we get a more accurate idea of Goku's speed at the time, which in turn either serves to retcon any older discrepancies, or shows that they're exaggerations and not to be taken at face value.

in the guide are indicated as beams of light destructive, beams of light move at lightspeed, simple thus.

to be fair.

kaikosen struck the kid goku.

Also Bakuretsu makoho nearly killed the kid goku.

then not are attacks nothing slow.

which means that Goku is still below the lightning and lightspeed in combat. lightning=1/3 of the lightspeed.

the reactions lightning and lightspeed only came later.
so forth, the speed of attack is increased, over time, where is these attacks will becoming so fast, that other users of ki, could not even see the beams of lights of freeza, while Freeza more increased his power, Goku that corresponded to with the of attacks freeza, could not keep with freeza used 50% of its power.