How were #17 and #18 enhanced?

[Mr. Piccolo]

How exactly were #17 and #18 enhanced? I know they have some kind of energy core in their body, but does the manga or anime ever state which parts of their bodies were robotically enhanced by Dr. Gero? For example, do they have metallic skeletons or hydraulics in their arms and legs? Any theories?

[Low Tone G]

No, the manga stated that Android 16 was only metal-based created, and Dr. Gero himself was transformed into a metal/based android, but his brain was kept. I think Android 19 was also metal-based. #17 and #18 were humans enhanced with some electronics and a core with limitless energy(theoretically).

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The Daizenshu don't specify, they just say that all the modifications are organic in nature. The only mechanical bits used in 17 and 18 are for the emergency shut down controller and self-destruction device.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Daizenshu don't specify, they just say that all the modifications are organic in nature. The only mechanical bits used in 17 and 18 are for the emergency shut down controller and self-destruction device.

What about their infinite energy reactors?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

What about their infinite energy reactors?

Organic?

Biotechnological-type Artificial Humans

03 ~ Artificial Human No. 17
A cool-headed artificial human who enjoys battles as if they were games. As the twin brother of No. 18, he places more importance on power. Like No. 18, he is fundamentally human-based and only his organic matter has been restructured. The few mechanical parts that are used were for his emergency deactivation controller and self-destruction device. If the emergency deactivation controller is used on the powerful No. 17 and No. 18, they become unable to move their bodies. As infinite models, No. 17 and No. 18's energy is limitless. Even if they discharge barriers or energy bullets, it isn't depleted.

[RocktheDragon]

What about their infinite energy reactors?

Organic?

Biotechnological-type Artificial Humans

03 ~ Artificial Human No. 17
A cool-headed artificial human who enjoys battles as if they were games. As the twin brother of No. 18, he places more importance on power. Like No. 18, he is fundamentally human-based and only his organic matter has been restructured. The few mechanical parts that are used were for his emergency deactivation controller and self-destruction device. If the emergency deactivation controller is used on the powerful No. 17 and No. 18, they become unable to move their bodies. As infinite models, No. 17 and No. 18's energy is limitless. Even if they discharge barriers or energy bullets, it isn't depleted.

I always found the description of their unlimited energy reactors quite mysterious and interesting. If we were given any more information their capabilities just wouldn't have been as "cool" and would have suffered from trying to over explain it all.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What about their infinite energy reactors?

Organic?

Biotechnological-type Artificial Humans

03 ~ Artificial Human No. 17
A cool-headed artificial human who enjoys battles as if they were games. As the twin brother of No. 18, he places more importance on power. Like No. 18, he is fundamentally human-based and only his organic matter has been restructured. The few mechanical parts that are used were for his emergency deactivation controller and self-destruction device. If the emergency deactivation controller is used on the powerful No. 17 and No. 18, they become unable to move their bodies. As infinite models, No. 17 and No. 18's energy is limitless. Even if they discharge barriers or energy bullets, it isn't depleted.

Wait... does that mean that they are not cyborgs?! I never noticed that one!

[Kaboom]

Okay, this new little revelation has me scratching my head. If 17 and 18's power isn't mechanically generated like other Androids, then where does it come from? If their power is somehow organic, then why, like other Androids, can't they be sensed?

Is there ANYTHING else out there which talks about how their power works?

[Herms]

For the record, the bit about them being modified organically is said in the manga too, by Bulma when looking over 17's blueprints.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, I remember her saying something like "they're still mostly organic" and/or "they're based on human bodies," but the idea of their POWER being somehow organic-based is new and confusing.

Especially in the way that it can't be sensed like the mechanical-model Androids' artificial power, while Cell's organic power CAN be sensed. What makes the 17 and 18 different from the other Androids but also different from Cell?

I also remembered that 17 and 18 are supposedly un-aging and immortal, with one of the guidebooks even labeling 18 as such. What causes THAT? Are that and their power the result of some sort of genetic engineering Gero did?

Damnit, guidebooks should ANSWER questions, not spawn new ones. Of course, the main reason I'm peeved is because this may require me to go back and rework GT Revised's Super 17 arc AGAIN, since the now-unclear source of 17 and 18's power was going to be a major plot point...

[DerekPadula]

If the only metal parts in their bodies are the 'self-destruction device' and 'emergency shutdown controller,' then we can presume the rest has been replaced with (somehow) superior organic parts, most likely made in Gero's lab.

This includes their infinite energy source, which remains a mystery. I suspect that Gero created an 'infinite energy' generating bio-organic organ that stores the energy throughout their body in way similar to ki, yet made of a different substance. This would explain why they cannot be sensed by the Z-Warriors, yet still have such tremendous power.

In short, they're not cyborgs so much as they are humans who have had their body parts replaced with superior organic components. Though one does wonder where the line is drawn on the term cyborg, such as if it only counts if the part added in is metal. There are replacement organs in today's medical science made of plastic and metal that can be inserted into the body, but we don't refer to those people as cyborgs, right? It's usually only complicated metallic or technological parts that make people 'cyborgs.'

In terms of telling the canonical story, it doesn't matter much, but these details do matter if you're trying to retell the story in a different format, such as live action or fan-fiction. For how their power is emitted then, I guess you could go either 'laser beam' or 'organic,' like the humans, since it's the same, yet different.

TheDevilsCorpse, can you paste the official descriptions for 18 and Cell in here as well? Or link to wherever they are on the site. Thanks.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

They're on Kanzentai, via the wayback machine. You won't really find any extra information to clarify anything in their entries from that section though. They mostly consist of fluff.

Biotechnological-type Artificial Humans

01 ~ Artificial Human No. 8
A human-based artificial human developed early on by Doctor Gero. "Hacchan" is the pet name that Goku gave him. He has no big special features outside of his superhuman strength and strong build. He has a timid and gentle personality. Though he won't fight when he himself is in danger, once he's angered he unleashes his true power. All artificial humans after No. 8 were built for the purpose of defeating Goku.


02 ~ Artificial Human No. 18
A female type, rare among artificial humans. Judging her by her appearance will backfire severely. Being human-based, she has the ability to mother children. Though she wields less power than her twin brother No. 17, she is still enough of a warrior to overwhelm Super Saiyan Vegeta.


03 ~ Artificial Human No. 17
A cool-headed artificial human who enjoys battles as if they were games. As the twin brother of No. 18, he places more importance on power. Like No. 18, he is fundamentally human-based and only his organic matter has been restructured. The few mechanical parts that are used were for his emergency deactivation controller and self-destruction device. If the emergency deactivation controller is used on the powerful No. 17 and No. 18, they become unable to move their bodies. As infinite models, No. 17 and No. 18's energy is limitless. Even if they discharge barriers or energy bullets, it isn't depleted.


04 ~ Cell
The ultimate biotechnological artificial human. His name signifies how he was made by combining the cells of fighting masters. His production took time, so a computer continued the research and completed him 24 years in the future. He powers up by absorbing the life energy of humans, and can further achieve his transfiguration into his ultimate perfect form by absorbing No. 17 and No. 18. Cell's tail is his terminal for absorbing life energy. Even if it is cut off, he can regenerate it any number of times due to Piccolo's cells, which he has inside his body. Even after the loss of its master Doctor Gero, the computer endlessly continued the research for Cell in the laboratory's basement.

[Kaboom]

In terms of telling the canonical story, it doesn't matter much, but these details do matter if you're trying to retell the story in a different format, such as live action or fan-fiction.

OR if you're trying write a continuation with a new story arc that relied heavily on how you previously understood the system to work. I think this may be the first time I've ever been peeved that a guidebook expanding on something has upset my fanfiction plans. Maybe because it comes off more as jumping to conclusions... the self-destruct and shutdown components being the only specific parts mentioned shouldn't necessarily mean they're the only mechanical parts, period.

On the plus side, GT showing 17 and new-17 having somehow-sensable ki makes a tiny bit more sense now.

[Saiga]

On the plus side, GT showing 17 and new-17 having somehow-sensable ki makes a tiny bit more sense now.

How? It's still contradictory to their inability to be sensed in Z. Cell needed to use Piccolo's ki to find 17.

[Godo]

Fan theory:
I always saw their reactors being made by a small and stable fusion reactor. Their energy is "lifetime limitless", and will eventually decay (in thousands of years).
This is how they could have a constant amount of energy outflow in battle, and also why they can't be sensed.
The "bomb" that they have must be a mechanism that allows the reactor's structure to break down, and thus create a huge explosion leagues stronger than a nuke (which in turn could take Perfect Cell down).

[Kamiccolo9]

Fan theory:
I always saw their reactors being made by a small and stable fusion reactor. Their energy is "lifetime limitless", and will eventually decay (in thousands of years).
This is how they could have a constant amount of energy outflow in battle, and also why they can't be sensed.
The "bomb" that they have must be a mechanism that allows the reactor's structure to break down, and thus create a huge explosion leagues stronger than a nuke (which in turn could take Perfect Cell down).

I could agree with this. It's pretty much what I was thinking of after seeing TheDevil'sCorpse's post.

[Kaboom]

It's a good theory, and I always pictured something similar to it as well. But it's kind of tossed out the window by the revelation that their power is organic in nature. Somehow.

[rereboy]

Fan theory:
I always saw their reactors being made by a small and stable fusion reactor. Their energy is "lifetime limitless", and will eventually decay (in thousands of years).
This is how they could have a constant amount of energy outflow in battle, and also why they can't be sensed.
The "bomb" that they have must be a mechanism that allows the reactor's structure to break down, and thus create a huge explosion leagues stronger than a nuke (which in turn could take Perfect Cell down).

If the bomb was the reactor, the Dragon wouldn't be able to remove it without making #18 lose her power. Unless you believe the Dragon just removed the mechanism, but the Dragon say himself that he found the androids strange so I doubt he understands enough of them to make that happen when they wish for her bomb to be removed. After all, if he understood that much, I think he would be able to turn her human,

[Godo]

It's a good theory, and I always pictured something similar to it as well. But it's kind of tossed out the window by the revelation that their power is organic in nature. Somehow.

The sun itself is a natural fusion reactor, unless by organic you mean one of the definitions, which is that the term applies to life forms (which probably the most known definition).
One could argue that a fusion reactor is artificial if it is made by humans, though.

If the bomb was the reactor, the Dragon wouldn't be able to remove it without making #18 lose her power. Unless you believe the Dragon just removed the mechanism, but the Dragon say himself that he found the androids strange so I doubt he understands enough of them to make that happen when they wish for her bomb to be removed. After all, if he understood that much, I think he would be able to turn her human,

I believe that he would in that case remove the trigger of the bomb, leaving the reactor unable to break down by any outer means.
When 18 threatened to blow herself up, she was holding her hand to her left chest, so there was probably a button there to press, which in turn signals the trigger.
Even so, the fact that Dr. Gero made these very advanced cyborgs would most possibly point to the fact that their build was much too advanced for Shenlong to comprehend.

It's a manga after all, so the real answer is probably not as advanced as my theory.

[RandomGuy96]

Or hey: just ignore that little tidbit. Easy enough.