When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:52 pm

Huh. I guess that, in addition to the guidebooks, the anime also outright stated he was a SS2. Add that to the pile.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:06 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Huh. I guess that, in addition to the guidebooks, the anime also outright stated he was a SS2. Add that to the pile.
Wouldn't be the first time the anime was wrong. Hell wouldn't be first time the anime used the wrong form.
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:17 am

Well at least the anime and three different guidebooks are all consistently wrong, I guess...?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:24 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Well at least the anime and three different guidebooks are all consistently wrong, I guess...?
I don't go by guidebooks the majority of the time
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:53 am

The anime saying full power doesn't mean he was SSJ2 just then he turned into a SSJ. Now as for what I was saying

This

Image

looks different then

this

Image


One more time

SSJ2

Image


ssj1

Image

Then bang is different and the ssj2 hair is wider and closer to Kid Gohan's ssj2 hair.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:56 am

I really don't see any difference there. I do, however, see a clear difference between SS and SS2 Gohan in Movie 10...

Also, yes, that's exactly what it means. Why repeatedly say he's at full power if he's not actually at full power? Makes no sense. We can safely conclude that the anime at least has him as a SS2.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:07 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:I really don't see any difference there. I do, however, see a clear difference between SS and SS2 Gohan in Movie 10...

Also, yes, that's exactly what it means. Why repeatedly say he's at full power if he's not actually at full power? Makes no sense.
One is MUCH MUCH more spiker than the other. Which looks caln.
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by Saiga » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:22 am

The first two look exactly the same, the only difference in the others is angle and slight off-modelness.
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:23 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Also, yes, that's exactly what it means. Why repeatedly say he's at full power if he's not actually at full power? Makes no sense. We can safely conclude that the anime at least has him as a SS2.
No in Toei world it means he's fighting all out as a ssj. Besides there is a hair difference.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by Nazi Cola » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:54 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I also believe that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 all the time, from getting angry with Spopovitch, to training with the Z-Sword, because he has the same hairstyle in all these instances, while his SS hairstyle was different from that a month before the tournament, and because it makes more sense for Gohan to be a SS2 against Dabra & Boo. So, while I still believe that the sparks are a trait of SS2 (and SS3), I guess Gohan's ki was "rusty" due to the lack of training for so long, so he didn't show sparks most of the time (only against Kibito, and he only stayed as a SS2 briefly).
I'm sorry if this sounds condescending, but what? He didn't have sparks because he was "rusty"? I'm not sure that makes any sense. Do the sparks have a mind of their own and decide whether they want to appear or not based on how often someone has trained or used the form? Because I always found the "power dictates sparks for Gohan" argument odd when at less than half power, which is verbally confirmed, he had lightning against Cell, and it's highly unlikely he got THAT weak over the years that he'd lose more than half of his power.
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:11 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Also, yes, that's exactly what it means. Why repeatedly say he's at full power if he's not actually at full power? Makes no sense. We can safely conclude that the anime at least has him as a SS2.
No in Toei world it means he's fighting all out as a ssj. Besides there is a hair difference.
No, it doesn't. I'm not sure how "he opens up at full power" and "he did everything he could" could possibly be twisted to mean anything else.

There's no hair difference. The only noticeable hair difference in the anime was the clear demonstration of the differences between the two bang SS hair and the one bang SS2 hair in M10.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by Reading Rainbow » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:45 am

To the OP:

I looked through the manga a bit more and found something that you may or may not have seen before. Before the 25th World Martial Arts Tournament Gohan trained Goten a bit:
you could compare this against his SSJ 2 form.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:19 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Also, yes, that's exactly what it means. Why repeatedly say he's at full power if he's not actually at full power? Makes no sense. We can safely conclude that the anime at least has him as a SS2.
No in Toei world it means he's fighting all out as a ssj. Besides there is a hair difference.
No, it doesn't. I'm not sure how "he opens up at full power" and "he did everything he could" could possibly be twisted to mean anything else.

There's no hair difference. The only noticeable hair difference in the anime was the clear demonstration of the differences between the two bang SS hair and the one bang SS2 hair in M10.
Yes there is I'm looking right at it. M10 is only easy to tell from the bangs but if you look at the pics I posted you can see a difference as well.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:25 pm

Saiga wrote:The first two look exactly the same, the only difference in the others is angle and slight off-modelness.
The hair looks very different. Much more spikey. Seriously. One panel or even 3 panels of no sparks maybe. But the entire fight he had zero sparks. Would Toriyama forget sparks for that long when a few chapters later Goku and Vegeta had sparks.
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:39 pm

Yes there is I'm looking right at it. M10 is only easy to tell from the bangs but if you look at the pics I posted you can see a difference as well.
So am I, and they look the exact same to me. Add that to the fact that he's stated to be a SS2 twice in dialogue and clearly has SS2 hair by the standards of M10, which explicitly showed the differences, and I think it's pretty clear.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:41 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Yes there is I'm looking right at it. M10 is only easy to tell from the bangs but if you look at the pics I posted you can see a difference as well.
So am I, and they look the exact same to me. Add that to the fact that he's stated to be a SS2 twice in dialogue and clearly has SS2 hair by the standards of M10, which explicitly showed the differences, and I think it's pretty clear.
I'm guessing you mean dialog from the anime. Which also said Pure Boo is the strongest.
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:20 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Yes there is I'm looking right at it is only easy to tell from the bang if you look at the pics I posted you can see a difference as well.
So am I, and they look the exact same to me. Add that to the fact that he's stated to be a SS2 twice in dialogue and clearly has SS2 hair by the standards of M10, which explicitly showed the differences, and I think it's pretty clear.
Considering ssj and ssj2 were never differated from in the anime till Goku shows the form to Buu and according to m10 Gohan only used ssj2 from the budokai on.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by Son_Gohan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:39 pm

They would be different by the fact that they were drawn by different animators. Most of the key animators responsible for his appearance at the tournament worked on episode 231:

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:59 am

Nazi Cola wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I also believe that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 all the time, from getting angry with Spopovitch, to training with the Z-Sword, because he has the same hairstyle in all these instances, while his SS hairstyle was different from that a month before the tournament, and because it makes more sense for Gohan to be a SS2 against Dabra & Boo. So, while I still believe that the sparks are a trait of SS2 (and SS3), I guess Gohan's ki was "rusty" due to the lack of training for so long, so he didn't show sparks most of the time (only against Kibito, and he only stayed as a SS2 briefly).
I'm sorry if this sounds condescending, but what? He didn't have sparks because he was "rusty"? I'm not sure that makes any sense. Do the sparks have a mind of their own and decide whether they want to appear or not based on how often someone has trained or used the form? Because I always found the "power dictates sparks for Gohan" argument odd when at less than half power, which is verbally confirmed, he had lightning against Cell, and it's highly unlikely he got THAT weak over the years that he'd lose more than half of his power.
How should I explain it... it's not because he is weaker, it's because he is untrained for so long. His ki is "rusty" because of the lack of training.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

Post by mAcChaos » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:37 pm

That can be weaker.

What happens if you stop lifting weights. You lose muscle. You become weaker.
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