Can scouters detect godly ki?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5822
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:00 am

Would a scouter register/overload from god ki or just read it as 0?
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
Blade
I Live Here
Posts: 2260
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: Contrary to popular belief, not on Kanzenshuu forums.
Contact:

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by Blade » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:46 am

Even Goku at the start of Battle of Gods couldn't entirely grasp Godly ki, and Piccolo was the only one of the Z fighters to be able to sense it in Kaioshin at the start of the Buu arc.

GIven that scouters tend to be (a fairly inaccurate means) of ki detection used by beings that can't sense it on their own, it seems unlikely that it would be able to measure its 'Godly' alternative.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:28 pm

I guess the numbers would go crazy, or it would simply write "ERROR" or something similar. Godly ki is not undetectable (like the Artificial Human's "ki"), it's immeasurable.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
Gutsxgoku
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by Gutsxgoku » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:45 pm

When did the scouters become obsolete? During Freeza arc? They just kept breaking every time someone got around the power of freeza or super saiya-jin... Were they ever seriously used again? If so I would say that if a scouter even attempted to read a godly ki level it would just break right off the bat. They have proven to be useless technology when it came to our Z warriors even in the Vegeta arc due to their ability to mask their true ki. In summation I would say if scouters were useless within a few episodes of DBZ, they would definitely prove useless when attempting to detect a godly ki.

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by Bussani » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:07 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I guess the numbers would go crazy, or it would simply write "ERROR" or something similar. Godly ki is not undetectable (like the Artificial Human's "ki"), it's immeasurable.
But wasn't Goku unable to detect it when it was coming towards him? It doesn't seem like it's simply immeasurable, but that you can't even tell it's there. Like the ki from the environment around you, I think a scouter might not even notice it.

That said, I think people are a bit harsh on the scouters. They had their flaws, but it seems as though they had one or two advantages, at least early on in the story when they didn't explode constantly. After all, if we're to believe that scouter readings don't change (except with beings who can control their ki, who are "rare") and that this means Vegeta and Nappa's battle powers never changed, then a scouter must have been able to tell how strong they were from the start, whereas the Earthlings couldn't tell exactly how menacing their ki was until they let it out and started punching arms off.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

User avatar
Gutsxgoku
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:55 pm

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by Gutsxgoku » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:14 pm

Bussani wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I guess the numbers would go crazy, or it would simply write "ERROR" or something similar. Godly ki is not undetectable (like the Artificial Human's "ki"), it's immeasurable.
But wasn't Goku unable to detect it when it was coming towards him? It doesn't seem like it's simply immeasurable, but that you can't even tell it's there. Like the ki from the environment around you, I think a scouter might not even notice it.

That said, I think people are a bit harsh on the scouters. They had their flaws, but it seems as though they had one or two advantages, at least early on in the story when they didn't explode constantly. After all, if we're to believe that scouter readings don't change (except with beings who can control their ki, who are "rare") and that this means Vegeta and Nappa's battle powers never changed, then a scouter must have been able to tell how strong they were from the start, whereas the Earthlings couldn't tell exactly how menacing their ki was until they let it out and started punching arms off.
The only reason they were useful was finding people... When it came to actually reading power levels they were a huge failure. Mainly due to the fact that even when powered up almost everyone could up their ki by channeling it. When it comes to that incident I don't think it mattered if the Z warriors knew Vegeta and Nappa's ki, they would have fought and held out as long as they could for Goku no matter what. This once again proves that even if the Z warriors had scouters they would be useless. Sorry to destroy your comment but realistically, knowing your enemies ki proved useless time after time... Hence the fact that they were completely gone after Freeza arc if I am not mistaken.

sekzee
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:52 pm

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by sekzee » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:19 pm

Of course they can... :wtf:

User avatar
Low Tone G
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1706
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:34 am

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by Low Tone G » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:00 pm

Blade wrote:
Even Goku at the start of Battle of Gods couldn't entirely grasp Godly ki, and Piccolo was the only one of the Z fighters to be able to sense it in Kaioshin at the start of the Buu arc.
I think the Piccolo wasn't able to sense because if he did he definitely would be affraid of Beerus, but he carelessly sang karaoke :P, and it isn't clarified that Kaioshins do possess the same Ki like Beerus, the SSJ God and Whis do. Piccolo guessed somehow that East Kaioshin is a "God" as he was was familiar from somewhere to him. And Beerus stated that the energy that he has is not expressed in battle power... East Kaioshin were somewhere as strong like a MSSJ, but weaker than a SSJ2, and Vegeta knew that the Kaioshin is weaker than him and Goku, and possibly Gohan., but Piccolo wasn't MSSJ Tier in Buu Arc.

And I think scouters could not detect Godly energy.
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:46 pm

Bussani wrote:But wasn't Goku unable to detect it when it was coming towards him? It doesn't seem like it's simply immeasurable, but that you can't even tell it's there. Like the ki from the environment around you, I think a scouter might not even notice it.
But Kaio & Dende/Kami have been shown to be detectable in the manga, and in BoG, Kuririn said that he can't tell how strong Goku is, not that he can't feel his power at all. We know that if someone with normal ki is weak, it's harder to find him, so I guess it works the same for people that can't be sensed properly.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

Saitou Hajime
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by Saitou Hajime » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:22 pm

I've always thought of godly ki as being similar to the reiatsu of transcendental beings like Ichigo and Aizen's at the end of the Deicide arc, where there power was so above the rest that it was on a completely different dimension, and so it can't be felt unless they deliberately lower themselves to the same dimension as the other.

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by Bussani » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:30 am

Gutsxgoku wrote:Sorry to destroy your comment
I don't think saying "ki sensing doesn't make a difference either way" destroys my comment at all, personally. One method can still have advantages the other doesn't even if neither would affect the outcome of a battle.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:But Kaio & Dende/Kami have been shown to be detectable in the manga
Are we sure they have "Godly ki", then? It seems logical, but it makes me wonder if Toriyama had even thought of it. Is it a retcon that we're supposed to try to apply to everyone with the "god" title in the manga now, or was it something he might have had in mind all along (I would have thought it would have been mentioned somewhere before Battle of Gods if that was the case, but anything's possible). Just so it's clear, I'm not trying to disagree with you at all--I'm just wondering about this stuff.
and in BoG, Kuririn said that he can't tell how strong Goku is, not that he can't feel his power at all. We know that if someone with normal ki is weak, it's harder to find him, so I guess it works the same for people that can't be sensed properly.
That's not the impression I got from Goku not being able to tell they were approaching, but it's a good idea.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Can scouters detect godly ki?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:20 am

Bussani wrote:Are we sure they have "Godly ki", then? It seems logical, but it makes me wonder if Toriyama had even thought of it. Is it a retcon that we're supposed to try to apply to everyone with the "god" title in the manga now, or was it something he might have had in mind all along (I would have thought it would have been mentioned somewhere before Battle of Gods if that was the case, but anything's possible).
I have a feeling that he had thought of godly ki, or at least had something in his mind, since Piccolo (who had merged with a god) could tell that Kaioshin was a god & that he was much stronger than him, and Dabra said that they couldn't use the energy from Kaioshin & Kibito (gods) to revive Majin Boo. And even in BoG, the statement about godly ki was made when Goku had teleported to Kaio, and even attempted to teleport to Kaioshin. So, I'll stick with "godly ki can be sensed, but not measured", because it doesn't make sense otherwise.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

Post Reply