Does Piccolo Have god Ki

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:59 pm

Bullza wrote:But he didn't plainly say that nor would he quit just because of it in the first place. He knew Beerus was stronger than him but still had a go, that's how he is.

Beerus threatened everyone, so of course he would try to do something.
Bullza wrote:That wouldn't make any sense because he couldn't sense Beerus. If he had Godly Ki the others wouldn't be able to sense him and there was never any implication that they couldn't.
We don't know that, we were never told if Piccolo could or couldn't sense Beerus. However, we did saw that it was him that told Goku that he wasn't a god yet.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Bullza » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:31 pm

That could easily just be chalked up to Piccolo's intelligence and him having a good eye for such things. He never commented on his power after he became a God or made any mention of the fact that this Beerus that showed up out of the blue just happened to be a God or anything.

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:47 pm

Bullza wrote:That could easily just be chalked up to Piccolo's intelligence and him having a good eye for such things. He never commented on his power after he became a God or made any mention of the fact that this Beerus that showed up out of the blue just happened to be a God or anything.
I wasn't saying that Piccolo definitely sensed God Goku's power. Just take it as you will.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Fizzer » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:26 pm

I doubt Kami had godly ki, since Kaio doesn't, because Goku can use him for instantaneous movement.

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by some_weirdGuy » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:40 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Bullza wrote:No Piccolo isn't the kind of sissy who'd quit like a bitch just because his opponent was stronger than him.

He said in his mind "Who is this man?" and the Kaioshin said he'd find out aloud and Piccolo realised he was using telepathy. He forfeited then told Goku that he was different order of being then soon approached him to ask if he was the Grand Kai.
That was a Viz error. The correct translation is this:
Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P12.3-4
Context: after Piccolo and Kaioshin's match
Goku: “That much, Piccolo?...”
Piccolo: “Yeah…Our dimensions…are too different…
Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding, right? Stop joking around! I-I’ve got to fight him next”
Note: Piccolo’s line is a pretty standard way of saying that someone is stronger than you. You can find a lot of instances of people being described as in “a different dimension” throughout these quotes, like Tenshinhan talking about Super Saiyan Goku, or the narrator describing final form Freeza. In Viz the line is made vaguer (“He is a different order of being”), which makes it sound like Piccolo could just be talking about how Kaioshin is a super-god, rather than about his strength per-say. Anyway, though Piccolo's pretty much flat-out saying Kaioshin's way stronger than him, you could still argue that he's mistaken or lying...I guess.
Piccolo's comment about South Kaioshin seems almost exactly like in english when someone says 'they're in a whole other league to (you/me/us)', which equally can be used as a pretty standard way to describe someone being stronger than you, but more specifically means they are simply 'superior' in some capacity, where context is then used to inform us what sort of capacity that would be. So I can see why there's debate given the immediate context is also ambiguous.

For myself however, based on further context, his specific reaction doesn't seem like he was worried Kaioshin was *stronger*, I mean he was fully willing to fight goku, gohan and vegeta, who he very likely knew/thought were stronger than him still, and has fought countless enemies in the past knowing they were far stronger than him - so I'm another who thinks it was more a respect thing. He was stunned because a literal god of gods(who ended up being a god of gods of gods even), who probably shouldn't ever even set foot in the mortal realm, was sitting there smiling at him cryptically while everyone was expecting him to start attacking them XD

I also think the wording was very specifically chosen because of that enigmatic interpretations, both to hype up kaioshin("pwwor, could he really be stronger than piccolo!?", goku acting as audience surrogate right there), to make way for the joke/gag where goku then wants to fight him much to piccolo's angst(adding further mystery to shin), and then to have piccolo's IC meaning as it being because he's the kaioshin(so a respect thing) which as we know gets revealed soon after.

Would be like if you got into a school yard scrape only for them to lift their mask and reveal (to you) they're literally the Queen herself - you're not gonna give her a punch in the face no matter what the on-looks chanting 'fight fight fight' want, and it has nothing to do with being worried about losing to her. :P
((added to which, as stunning as it is, the queen must have a damn good reason for secretly being in the school even if they don't seem to want to tell you, so in keeping that secret you wouldn't be able to say 'I didn't fight them cause they're the queen', you'd say something like they're just not someone you're going to fight and no one else here should fight them either, which is exactly what piccolo basically did ;))


(((as for godly ki, wasn't thought up at the time so would be no, but if we're talking retroactively? Why not, mixed in with his regular ki since everyone can sense him))
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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Low Tone G » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:14 am

As I said before Piccolo does not have any Godly Ki. He is just a Namek. He was reunified with Kami so he do possess his knowledge about the hierarchy of the Gods in the universe. He knows some rumors about the Kaioshins, but it was not proven that the East Kaioshin was stronger than any of SSJ2's as Fat Buu defeated him as an instant as SSJ2 Gohan (who was weakend sinse Cell saga). I definetely believe East Kaioshin had some mystical skills which put him above normal world (as being a God who creates).

Piccolo did not know that both Goku and Vegeta were stronger than Cell Games Gohan, so in the best case Eas Kaioshin was equal with SSj2 Gohan from early Buu saga.

If that is true the Kais and Kaioshins are born GODS, and possess a different KI than the normal beings, I go with the theory that the only way they could be sensed by lower beings that they use normal battle power to defend the universe against lower threats(aka Babidi, Frieza, Makaios, etc), but in the same time their Godly Ki can not be sensed. Beerus does not have normal ki, and uses his power as a skill to destroy, not a power that in can be sensed.
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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Hitiro » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:04 am

I honestly don't think Piccolo has god ki. It is reserved for certain beings. I also don't think that most of the Kaio-jin have god ki either. I would think it is in rare cases that a Kaio-jin have god ki. The ones that would have it would be the greatest of them.

I also don't think Piccolo sensed a gap between Kaioshin and himself. Rather he realised that he was somebody higher up and "believed" that there was a huge gap in strength between them. Piccolo overestimated the Kaioshin because he couldn't sense his power and was basing how strong he should be on his title. Much like how the Kaioshin underestimates the Saiyan's and overestimates Babidi's soldiers. I mean Pui Pui was a warrior who thought under 10 times normal gravity and thought that it was an impressive feat. That much gravity was the normal amount for Saiyan's pre-dragonball and they all had powerlevels in the thousands, anybody who isn't used to that gravity would be used to it pretty much straight away if they have high battlepowers. Goku training on Kaio's planet put him in the thousands too. So I can't imagine Pui Pui being stronger than Freeza, no matter how much training he did, and the Kaioshin was actually afraid of him and not of Freeza. Doesn't really add up unless he was just going off of tales he had heard rather than actually sensing the enemy.

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Low Tone G » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:38 am

Hitiro wrote:I honestly don't think Piccolo has god ki. It is reserved for certain beings. I also don't think that most of the Kaio-jin have god ki either. I would think it is in rare cases that a Kaio-jin have god ki. The ones that would have it would be the greatest of them.

I also don't think Piccolo sensed a gap between Kaioshin and himself. Rather he realised that he was somebody higher up and "believed" that there was a huge gap in strength between them. Piccolo overestimated the Kaioshin because he couldn't sense his power and was basing how strong he should be on his title. Much like how the Kaioshin underestimates the Saiyan's and overestimates Babidi's soldiers. I mean Pui Pui was a warrior who thought under 10 times normal gravity and thought that it was an impressive feat. That much gravity was the normal amount for Saiyan's pre-dragonball and they all had powerlevels in the thousands, anybody who isn't used to that gravity would be used to it pretty much straight away if they have high battlepowers. Goku training on Kaio's planet put him in the thousands too. So I can't imagine Pui Pui being stronger than Freeza, no matter how much training he did, and the Kaioshin was actually afraid of him and not of Freeza. Doesn't really add up unless he was just going off of tales he had heard rather than actually sensing the enemy.
As Goku can use Instant Transmission to meet the Kaioshin, as he does have something which indicates for Goku a presence as he could go to the Kaioshins' Realm. So their prensence can be detectable by normal Goku(not God Goku). Or the Kaioshin's Ki was transformed into a lower one when fused with Kibito? That doesn't make any sense as Kibito-Kaioshin became significantly stronger after the fusion.

This issue needs to be clarified by AT himself, as he refers them Gods, the Gods of Creation, and also the pairs of the God Destruction, which should mean they are on the same level of hierarchy, doesn't it?
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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:43 am

Low Tone G wrote:
Hitiro wrote:I honestly don't think Piccolo has god ki. It is reserved for certain beings. I also don't think that most of the Kaio-jin have god ki either. I would think it is in rare cases that a Kaio-jin have god ki. The ones that would have it would be the greatest of them.

I also don't think Piccolo sensed a gap between Kaioshin and himself. Rather he realised that he was somebody higher up and "believed" that there was a huge gap in strength between them. Piccolo overestimated the Kaioshin because he couldn't sense his power and was basing how strong he should be on his title. Much like how the Kaioshin underestimates the Saiyan's and overestimates Babidi's soldiers. I mean Pui Pui was a warrior who thought under 10 times normal gravity and thought that it was an impressive feat. That much gravity was the normal amount for Saiyan's pre-dragonball and they all had powerlevels in the thousands, anybody who isn't used to that gravity would be used to it pretty much straight away if they have high battlepowers. Goku training on Kaio's planet put him in the thousands too. So I can't imagine Pui Pui being stronger than Freeza, no matter how much training he did, and the Kaioshin was actually afraid of him and not of Freeza. Doesn't really add up unless he was just going off of tales he had heard rather than actually sensing the enemy.
As Goku can use Instant Transmission to meet the Kaioshin, as he does have something which indicates for Goku a presence as he could go to the Kaioshins' Realm. So their prensence can be detectable by normal Goku(not God Goku). Or the Kaioshin's Ki was transformed into a lower one when fused with Kibito? That doesn't make any sense as Kibito-Kaioshin became significantly stronger after the fusion.

This issue needs to be clarified by AT himself, as he refers them Gods, the Gods of Creation, and also the pairs of the God Destruction, which should mean they are on the same level of hierarchy, doesn't it?
When did Goku sense Kaioshin's ki to teleport to him?
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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Hitiro » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:01 am

Low Tone G wrote:As Goku can use Instant Transmission to meet the Kaioshin, as he does have something which indicates for Goku a presence as he could go to the Kaioshins' Realm. So their prensence can be detectable by normal Goku(not God Goku). Or the Kaioshin's Ki was transformed into a lower one when fused with Kibito? That doesn't make any sense as Kibito-Kaioshin became significantly stronger after the fusion.

This issue needs to be clarified by AT himself, as he refers them Gods, the Gods of Creation, and also the pairs of the God Destruction, which should mean they are on the same level of hierarchy, doesn't it?
Well, don't know who Goku was using as a basis for transmitting to the Kaioshin's planet. Gohan was there at the time so it could be he was Instant transmitting to him? In fact I'm pretty sure it was Gohan he sensed after finding out he wasn't dead. And the second time he went to the Kaioshin's planet was because Kibitoshin teleported him there. It was never specified when he tried to Instant Transmit that he was going to Kibitoshin. He could have been going to Kaio.

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Low Tone G » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:14 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:
Hitiro wrote:I honestly don't think Piccolo has god ki. It is reserved for certain beings. I also don't think that most of the Kaio-jin have god ki either. I would think it is in rare cases that a Kaio-jin have god ki. The ones that would have it would be the greatest of them.

I also don't think Piccolo sensed a gap between Kaioshin and himself. Rather he realised that he was somebody higher up and "believed" that there was a huge gap in strength between them. Piccolo overestimated the Kaioshin because he couldn't sense his power and was basing how strong he should be on his title. Much like how the Kaioshin underestimates the Saiyan's and overestimates Babidi's soldiers. I mean Pui Pui was a warrior who thought under 10 times normal gravity and thought that it was an impressive feat. That much gravity was the normal amount for Saiyan's pre-dragonball and they all had powerlevels in the thousands, anybody who isn't used to that gravity would be used to it pretty much straight away if they have high battlepowers. Goku training on Kaio's planet put him in the thousands too. So I can't imagine Pui Pui being stronger than Freeza, no matter how much training he did, and the Kaioshin was actually afraid of him and not of Freeza. Doesn't really add up unless he was just going off of tales he had heard rather than actually sensing the enemy.
As Goku can use Instant Transmission to meet the Kaioshin, as he does have something which indicates for Goku a presence as he could go to the Kaioshins' Realm. So their prensence can be detectable by normal Goku(not God Goku). Or the Kaioshin's Ki was transformed into a lower one when fused with Kibito? That doesn't make any sense as Kibito-Kaioshin became significantly stronger after the fusion.

This issue needs to be clarified by AT himself, as he refers them Gods, the Gods of Creation, and also the pairs of the God Destruction, which should mean they are on the same level of hierarchy, doesn't it?
When did Goku sense Kaioshin's ki to teleport to him?
In the movie (B.o.G.) we can see Goku is searching for Kaioshin's presence to ask him about Beerus-sama, and King Kai stops him to do that, being really scared. If King Kai did knew that Goku can't sense the Kaioshin, then why didn't he let Goku to try it out?
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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Hitiro » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:29 am

Low Tone G wrote:In the movie (B.o.G.) we can see Goku is searching for Kaioshin's presence to ask him about Beerus-sama, and King Kai stops him to do that, being really scared. If King Kai did knew that Goku can't sense the Kaioshin, then why didn't he let Goku to try it out?
I must be getting forgetful. I don't recall that. Okay then.

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:44 am

Hitiro wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:In the movie (B.o.G.) we can see Goku is searching for Kaioshin's presence to ask him about Beerus-sama, and King Kai stops him to do that, being really scared. If King Kai did knew that Goku can't sense the Kaioshin, then why didn't he let Goku to try it out?
I must be getting forgetful. I don't recall that. Okay then.
I don't remember that either.
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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by Friezacooler » Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:50 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Hitiro wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:In the movie (B.o.G.) we can see Goku is searching for Kaioshin's presence to ask him about Beerus-sama, and King Kai stops him to do that, being really scared. If King Kai did knew that Goku can't sense the Kaioshin, then why didn't he let Goku to try it out?
I must be getting forgetful. I don't recall that. Okay then.
I don't remember that either.
it is at the very start of battle of gods.

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Re: Does Piccolo Have god Ki

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:19 pm

I don't think Piccolo should have god ki as he's not a god.
As for him determining Kaioshin was stronger than him, I think it's because Kaioshin read his mind rather than Piccolo somehow sensing his ki, which there's no hint of.
I'd like to think mind reading can't just be done on everybody and if you're stronger than the one trying to mind read, you should be able to protect your thoughts.
As such Kaioshin reading Piccolo like an open book was what proved to Piccolo, that he was horribly outclassed.

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