Teaching the Saiyan race how to transform into Super Saiyans

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Hitiro
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Re: Teaching the Saiyan race how to transform into Super Sai

Post by Hitiro » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:43 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:Even so, do you really think it makes any sense for Toriyama to respond to a question about Bardock's battle power with something that has nothing to do with his battle power? I highly doubt he had some hidden message here. He was asked about Bardock's battle power, and he responded that he's a high-tier low class fighter, but isn't able to become a mid-class.
I see his response as more of skating around the question he was asked, personally. He isn't going to come out and say something direct through fear of angering a subset of the fans. It's a pretty PR answer which doesn't go into too much detail so he doesn't get hounded. That answer leaves it pretty open.

Yes, he's a low-class warrior.

Does that mean his battle power is that of one? Toriyama never explicitly says that it is or isn't. All he says is a fact that we do know, he is a low-class warrior. I don't think that harms the credibility of the "Father of Goku" special.
Last edited by Hitiro on Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dprez
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Re: Teaching the Saiyan race how to transform into Super Sai

Post by dprez » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:43 am

Wouldn't a power of near 10,000 be considered at least high-tier middle class. Dragon Ball minus is still something I have yet to read. Does it really destroy the credibility of "Father of Goku"? I decided to speak up here because I recently watched the tv special for the first time in Japanese and it blew me away. I love it and it fits perfectly, especially if you watch it after the DBZ episode where Goku appears and Freeza recognizes him from seeing Burdocks face right before he destroys planet Vegeta. Anyway, I disagree with it not being able to be considered canon anymore. I don't know, Toriyama here has done something controversial it seams...

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Re: Teaching the Saiyan race how to transform into Super Sai

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:54 am

dprez wrote:Wouldn't a power of near 10,000 be considered at least high-tier middle class. Dragon Ball minus is still something I have yet to read. Does it really destroy the credibility of "Father of Goku"? I decided to speak up here because I recently watched the tv special for the first time in Japanese and it blew me away. I love it and it fits perfectly, especially if you watch it after the DBZ episode where Goku appears and Freeza recognizes him from seeing Burdocks face right before he destroys planet Vegeta. Anyway, I disagree with it not being able to be considered canon anymore. I don't know, Toriyama here has done something controversial it seams...
Except he's not 10,000. That only comes from the special. Which isn't in the manga's continuity anymore. Hence why Toriyama said he isn't able to become a mid-class warrior.

Yeah, it does. It contradicts just about everything it possibly could in such a short amount of time. The DB Minus chapter written by Toriyama and the anime special created by Toei are completely different and irreconcilable stories.
I see his response as more of skating around the question he was asked, personally. He isn't going to come out and say something direct through fear of angering a subset of the fans. It's a pretty PR answer which doesn't go into too much detail so he doesn't get hounded. That answer leaves it pretty open.

Yes, he's a low-class warrior.

Does that mean his battle power is that of one? Toriyama never explicitly says that it is or isn't. All he says is a fact that we do know, he is a low-class warrior. I don't think that harms the credibility of the "Father of Goku" special.
But he's not skating around at all. He just says that Bardock isn't able to become a mid-class warrior, but that he could if he had a high enough battle power.

This isn't about the credibility of the special. Again, forget about it. It has no place in a manga discussion, at least not since Minus came out and declared it didn't happen.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Teaching the Saiyan race how to transform into Super Sai

Post by Hitiro » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:25 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:But he's not skating around at all. He just says that Bardock isn't able to become a mid-class warrior, but that he could if he had a high enough battle power.

This isn't about the credibility of the special. Again, forget about it. It has no place in a manga discussion, at least not since Minus came out and declared it didn't happen.
Sorry, but he never says he isn't able to become a mid-class warrior. You are putting words in his mouth. All he says in regard to Bardock is that he is a low-class warrior and that Saiyans "can" be promoted to higher classes. Nowhere does he say Bardock isn't capable of being promoted to a higher class.

Edit: My bad, I went back and re-read the answer he gave and he does say that, sorry, lol.

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Re: Teaching the Saiyan race how to transform into Super Sai

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:13 am

Toriyama was asked about Bardock's battle power. If he believed that he was as strong as he was in the special, then he would have said something like "Bardock is a low-class warrior, but his BP is at elite level, but he never got promoted". Instead, he said (paraphrasing a little) "The classes are determined by the warrior's power, but they can be promoted if he gets strong enough. Bardock is in the upper ranks of low-class warriors, but he isn't able to become a mid-class warrior". It's very clear that Toriyama says that Bardock wasn't strong enough to become a mid-class.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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