Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more!?

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue May 06, 2014 6:13 pm

Toriyama sounds like he is just saying stuff right now in order to hold an interview, 5 or 10 years from now he'll mention something about Goku being such a great martial artist he found a way to master SSJ3.

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Thu May 08, 2014 5:31 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama sounds like he is just saying stuff right now in order to hold an interview, 5 or 10 years from now he'll mention something about Goku being such a great martial artist he found a way to master SSJ3.
Yeah, I've been getting a heavy "talking out my ass" vibe from Toriyama lately. That's just me.
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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Thu May 08, 2014 5:49 pm

DarkPrince_92 wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama sounds like he is just saying stuff right now in order to hold an interview, 5 or 10 years from now he'll mention something about Goku being such a great martial artist he found a way to master SSJ3.
Yeah, I've been getting a heavy "talking out my ass" vibe from Toriyama lately. That's just me.
Well, when people wont leave the guy alone, what do you expect to happen?
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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Thu May 08, 2014 7:18 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Well, when people wont leave the guy alone, what do you expect to happen?
It's true though. I know exactly what he's going through. This year is my last year at art school and I had to make an animated short for my thesis. At this point in time I'm SO TIRED OF LOOKING AT IT, that whenever people ask me about it, I give them an answer I'd think they would like just to shut them up... I don't want to talk about it anymore. :crazy: That's how Toriyama feels about Dragon Ball at this point.
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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by goku the krump dancer » Thu May 08, 2014 7:44 pm

DarkPrince_92 wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Well, when people wont leave the guy alone, what do you expect to happen?
It's true though. I know exactly what he's going through. This year is my last year at art school and I had to make an animated short for my thesis. At this point in time I'm SO TIRED OF LOOKING AT IT, that whenever people ask me about it, I give them an answer I'd think they would like just to shut them up... I don't want to talk about it anymore. :crazy: That's how Toriyama feels about Dragon Ball at this point.
That's how any artist feels about anything that they're mainly known for. Which is probably why McGruder stepped away from the Boondocks.
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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri May 09, 2014 12:03 am

goku the krump dancer wrote:
DarkPrince_92 wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Well, when people wont leave the guy alone, what do you expect to happen?
It's true though. I know exactly what he's going through. This year is my last year at art school and I had to make an animated short for my thesis. At this point in time I'm SO TIRED OF LOOKING AT IT, that whenever people ask me about it, I give them an answer I'd think they would like just to shut them up... I don't want to talk about it anymore. :crazy: That's how Toriyama feels about Dragon Ball at this point.
That's how any artist feels about anything that they're mainly known for. Which is probably why McGruder stepped away from the Boondocks.
I'd answer with a I haven't thought about it before or I'll let the fans come up with their own answers.

Toriyama's answer about SSJ2 and SSJ3 makes me believe he forgot what SSJgr2 and SSJgr3 are.

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri May 09, 2014 2:04 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama's answer about SSJ2 and SSJ3 makes me believe he forgot what SSJgr2 and SSJgr3 are.
Why is that?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri May 09, 2014 8:33 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama's answer about SSJ2 and SSJ3 makes me believe he forgot what SSJgr2 and SSJgr3 are.
Why is that?
He calls ssj2 and ssj3 upgraded and says Goku can mastered that power as a regular ssj which is more or less what he did in the Cell games.

Ssj2 and ssj3 were said to be true ascended levels vs advanced stages.

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat May 10, 2014 2:48 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:Toriyama's answer about SSJ2 and SSJ3 makes me believe he forgot what SSJgr2 and SSJgr3 are.
Why is that?
He calls ssj2 and ssj3 upgraded and says Goku can mastered that power as a regular ssj which is more or less what he did in the Cell games.

Ssj2 and ssj3 were said to be true ascended levels vs advanced stages.
What you say is true, but Toriyama is talking about Goku after his fight with Beerus. Goku has absorbed the Super Saiyan God power in his base, which means that transforming doesn't make him stronger anymore. So, transforming into SS2 or SS3 would only give him drawbacks, which is why Goku has abandoned them, and will only use base & SS from now on, since they don't have drawbacks.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Kishido » Thu May 15, 2014 8:56 am

That makes no sense as well... if he absorbed all of the God power he doesn't need to transform in Super Saiyan as well and can simply fight in base... And what happens if he transforms into God mode once again?

On top on that... What happens if he trains his Super Saiyan level to the max level of 3 but after it will still transform?

The whole thing simply makes no sense

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Low Tone G » Thu May 15, 2014 11:13 am

Kishido wrote:That makes no sense as well... if he absorbed all of the God power he doesn't need to transform in Super Saiyan as well and can simply fight in base... And what happens if he transforms into God mode once again?

On top on that... What happens if he trains his Super Saiyan level to the max level of 3 but after it will still transform?

The whole thing simply makes no sense
It makes sense because Goku trained very much in SSJ and he is accustomed with SSJ and he was more SSJ than base figher. So if he uses SSJ it doesn't mean that he is unable to use his Godly powers in base just, he better fights as a Super Saiyan because he feels it to be more comfortable. And he already mastered his SSJ, so it doesn't have drawbacks so he doesn't loose energy to use it, Maybe the Super Saiyan gives a more durable body.
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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu May 15, 2014 12:38 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote: What you say is true, but Toriyama is talking about Goku after his fight with Beerus. Goku has absorbed the Super Saiyan God power in his base, which means that transforming doesn't make him stronger anymore. So, transforming into SS2 or SS3 would only give him drawbacks, which is why Goku has abandoned them, and will only use base & SS from now on, since they don't have drawbacks.

Wasn't he talking about the SSJ God transformation, rather than SSJ levels?
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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu May 15, 2014 1:19 pm

Herms wrote:
In general...I really doubt Toriyama has any interest in discounting GT.
I don't see why not? He does not seem to care about DB stuff outside the manga he created. That same question mention SSj4 and a possible SSj5. AT didn't seem to mention or brought up SSj4. If he does discounts GT then I don't see the big deal is. I thought that's what fans wanted? You can still watch the show since it's not like it's going to be gone forever.
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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu May 15, 2014 2:03 pm

Kishido wrote:That makes no sense as well... if he absorbed all of the God power he doesn't need to transform in Super Saiyan as well and can simply fight in base...
Goku doesn't need to transform anymore, but he's not doing any harm to transform either. So, either way, it's the same thing.

Plus, it's cooler fighting as a Super Saiyan. 8)
And what happens if he transforms into God mode once again?
He gets a small boost in power, and a time-limit. Maybe whatever he did with Beerus' ki blast is an ability exclusive to that form.

On top on that... What happens if he trains his Super Saiyan level to the max level of 3 but after it will still transform?
What?

Cursed Lemon wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote: What you say is true, but Toriyama is talking about Goku after his fight with Beerus. Goku has absorbed the Super Saiyan God power in his base, which means that transforming doesn't make him stronger anymore. So, transforming into SS2 or SS3 would only give him drawbacks, which is why Goku has abandoned them, and will only use base & SS from now on, since they don't have drawbacks.

Wasn't he talking about the SSJ God transformation, rather than SSJ levels?
He said in one interview that he no longer needs Super Saiyan God, and then he said in another that he no longer needs Super Saiyan 2 & Super Saiyan 3. It's also stated in the manga that Super Saiyan Grade 2 & Super Saiyan Grade 3 are useless, and Oozaru is unusable and obviously useless for Goku. All these forms give Goku drawbacks, while base & Super Saiyan (Full Power) don't give him any drawbacks. So, these are the only forms that he should use from now on.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Kishido » Thu May 15, 2014 2:42 pm

OK let me explain, cuz my english isn't the best.

If Goku trains his SS form to the max... What would happen if he still turn SS2... Nothing?

Would make no sense in my eyes and that's why I do not understand the statement of Toriyama... it would make the whole Gohan got the right form in the Cell saga useless... Cuz 2 and 3 never has been the right form to go... And not even Goku, the genius, has realized it.

Same goes for GT and Super Saiyan 4

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Hitiro » Thu May 15, 2014 3:39 pm

Kishido wrote:OK let me explain, cuz my english isn't the best.

If Goku trains his SS form to the max... What would happen if he still turn SS2... Nothing?

Would make no sense in my eyes and that's why I do not understand the statement of Toriyama... it would make the whole Gohan got the right form in the Cell saga useless... Cuz 2 and 3 never has been the right form to go... And not even Goku, the genius, has realized it.

Same goes for GT and Super Saiyan 4
The SSJ transformations are supposed to unlock more potential. If you have no potential left to unlock the transformations become useless. That's why Gohan doesn't need to go SSJ anymore, the unlocked potential that the Elder Kai gave him already gives him a boost where the transformations would not give him any difference in power. I can't speak for SSJ4 because the Saiyan's are given different bodies so their potential might be vastly different from their normal bodies.

Goku is giving up on the other transformations because at some point they aren't going to provide any sort of benefit and will only drain his power. If Goku's maximum potential is 50x his maximum power right now then there is no reason to go SSJ2 or SSJ3 as they will both only give him a 50x boost.

So Goku is looking ahead into the future and thinking that it is better to push the limits of his body to the max and forget about trying to master SSJ2 and SSJ3.

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Kishido » Thu May 15, 2014 4:37 pm

With this explanation he should train in base an had no need to transform into a SSJ as well

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Hitiro » Thu May 15, 2014 4:58 pm

Kishido wrote:With this explanation he should train in base an had no need to transform into a SSJ as well
Well, of course. But it is still going to be hard to reach his maximum potential. If he is going to fight he may as well get as strong as he can in base and rely on the original SSJ form which has minimal strain only when necessary.

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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu May 15, 2014 5:25 pm

He has the power of a SSjG now which is why I think AT mention that Goku won't need to go SSj2 and SSj3 anymore.
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Re: Toriyama says Goku won't turn Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any mo

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu May 15, 2014 6:11 pm

Kishido wrote:With this explanation he should train in base an had no need to transform into a SSJ as well
I assume that Super Saiyan is a better state to fight & train, even if it doesn't give a boost in power. I mean, Goku & Gohan got a monstrous boost in power by staying Super Saiyan all the time and training like that.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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