Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Cursed Lemon
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1047
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:40 pm

Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are all half-saiyan.

So why is it that Goten and Trunks were able to achieve what basically amounts to FPSSJ with virtually no real training?

Obviously the two of them do some serious slacking off after Z, and future Trunks couldn't get to SSJ2 like Gohan did, but Gohan still required lengthy and body-breaking training just to hit the level of super saiyan, and then even more intense training and a huge surge of rage to get up to SSJ2.

What gives?
Last edited by Cursed Lemon on Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Special Beam Cannon!

(゚Д゚)σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃

User avatar
Marco Polo
I Live Here
Posts: 2950
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: France

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by Marco Polo » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:47 pm

Irony.    

rereboy
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10261
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by rereboy » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:53 pm

Their fathers were SSJ when they were conceived. Who knows what kind of changes that produces on a Saiyan, not to mention that it would make perfect sense for a warrior race to transmit their own strength as much as possible into their offspring, biologically speaking. So... super sperm.

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13014
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:06 pm

rereboy wrote:Their fathers were SSJ when they were conceived. Who knows what kind of changes that produces on a Saiyan, not to mention that it would make perfect sense for a warrior race to transmit their own strength as much as possible into their offspring, biologically speaking. So... super sperm.
Was Vegeta an SSJ by then? Didn't he leave Bulma for a year to go into space? Was he an SSJ before that?
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

Nikkolas
Regular
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:00 pm

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by Nikkolas » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:36 pm

Because Toriyama understands genetics about as well as he understands lunar science.

User avatar
ParkerAL
Regular
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:05 pm

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by ParkerAL » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:24 pm

Giving Trunks and Goten Super Saiyan powers really was just an ass-pull on Toriyama's part, but it's one I'm willing to accept. If they were at Gohan's level when he was their age, they wouldn't be able to play a relevant role in the Buu Arc.
Favorite Movies: Alien, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, The Thing, Evil Dead, The Land Before Time
Favorite Shows: Cardcaptor Sakura, Doctor Who, Wallace and Gromit, Wakfu, Yu Yu Hakusho
Favorite Manga: Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter x Hunter, Dragon Ball
Augenis wrote:The power level view into the series has trained a significant portion of the fan base into real life stereotypical members of the Freeza empire, where each and every individual is reduced to a floating number above their heads and any sudden changes to said number are met with shock and confusion.

User avatar
Kaboom
Moderator
Posts: 14138
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: Funky Town
Contact:

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by Kaboom » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:44 pm

I don't think they're necessarily all that different... it could just be that Trunks and Goten's "potential" has manifested in different ways.
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised
[thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
3DS FC: 1504 - 5800 - 6358


We Gotta Power >>>>> Cha-La Head Cha-La. Fight me.

A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!

hyperbeing1
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:05 am

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by hyperbeing1 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:41 am

Kaboom wrote:I don't think they're necessarily all that different... it could just be that Trunks and Goten's "potential" has manifested in different ways.
i have a similar view. also i do not believe their potential really surpasses gohan what i mean is that yeah they have potent potential they both turned ssj in early ages and they were said both to have great potential and gohan had admitted if he did not be careful they would leave him in the dust.However this is the gohan had had not trained for seven years and had gotten considerably weaker. and trunks and goten have yet to turns ss2 where gohan had (though if you believe they could without turning into gotenks.). And much later in the saga after gohan had possibly all his potential unlocked not only did he eclipse them he also eclipsed even a ssj3 gotenks.
(i am still getting used to this typing thing on a forum and if you guys see a problem i will revise it and see if i can make it clearer what i am trying to say and i like this site so far i also like the strength checker)

User avatar
dario03
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1320
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:36 pm

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by dario03 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:33 am

I've always had the theory that they just pick up on the strength, ki sensing, and techniques of those around them. And since they were around stronger fighters, using high level ki and becoming SS just comes natural to them. And being younger might help with that, like how children naturally just pick up on language when they are very young.

hyperbeing1
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:05 am

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by hyperbeing1 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:12 am

dario03 wrote:I've always had the theory that they just pick up on the strength, ki sensing, and techniques of those around them. And since they were around stronger fighters, using high level ki and becoming SS just comes natural to them. And being younger might help with that, like how children naturally just pick up on language when they are very young.
that is another way at looking like it i guess. also if goten did turn ssj before trunks i guess trunks would be greatly motivated on turning ssj so he wont get outshone

User avatar
Saiga
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8283
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:36 pm
Location: Space Australia

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by Saiga » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:37 am

There aren't really that much more prodigious than Gohan when you consider than Gohan had Super Saiyan at age 9 and only took 1 year sparring with another Super Saiyan to master it. That only gives them a few years up on Gohan. So Trunks is about as much more prodigious than Gohan as Goten is to Trunks, which is to say not much at all. Then neither of them show Gohan's rare rage boosts, so it evens out.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!

User avatar
IDreamtIWasABee
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:45 am

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by IDreamtIWasABee » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:29 pm

Gohan is extremely sensitive and probably emotionally repressed, even as a teenager. His difficulty accessing and handling his power is a sloppy metaphor for emotional introspection. Goten and Trunks don't have this problem/gift.

Also, Super Saiyan sperm.

hyperbeing1
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:05 am

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by hyperbeing1 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:56 am

IDreamtIWasABee wrote:Gohan is extremely sensitive and probably emotionally repressed, even as a teenager. His difficulty accessing and handling his power is a sloppy metaphor for emotional introspection. Goten and Trunks don't have this problem/gift.

Also, Super Saiyan sperm.
i'm still uncertain if vegeta was ssj when trunks was conceived.

User avatar
Blade
I Live Here
Posts: 2260
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm
Location: Contrary to popular belief, not on Kanzenshuu forums.
Contact:

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by Blade » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:10 am

Out of universe answer: Plot convenience.

In-Universe answer: Saiyan/Human hybrids born without a tail, unlike Gohan, are more prodigious.

My connect-the-dots explanation: Reactive adaptation, that being the ability for Saiyans, especially young ones, to adapt to the relative strength of the people around them - which in the case of Trunks and Goten were the incredibly strong Vegeta and Gohan respectively.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.

hyperbeing1
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:05 am

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by hyperbeing1 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:57 am

Blade wrote:Out of universe answer: Plot convenience.

In-Universe answer: Saiyan/Human hybrids born without a tail, unlike Gohan, are more prodigious.

My connect-the-dots explanation: Reactive adaptation, that being the ability for Saiyans, especially young ones, to adapt to the relative strength of the people around them - which in the case of Trunks and Goten were the incredibly strong Vegeta and Gohan respectively.
do you think being around piccolo and tien and krillin and 18 also helped.

User avatar
NitroEX
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1503
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:21 am
Location: Not America

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by NitroEX » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:33 am

IDreamtIWasABee wrote:Gohan is extremely sensitive and probably emotionally repressed, even as a teenager. His difficulty accessing and handling his power is a sloppy metaphor for emotional introspection. Goten and Trunks don't have this problem/gift.
That's a really interesting way of looking at it.

It's a shame this type of thing couldn't have been explored more during the Buu arc as realistically Gohan would have suffered a lot of trauma from his experience during the Cell games as a child never mind the Saiyan/Freeza stuff. I get the typically happy story world of Dragonball would have problems delving into darker territory like that but perhaps it would have helped the audience connect to Gohan more if he wasn't bred by Toriyama to be a watered down Goku 2.0 and had problems his powers couldn't solve.

The Gohan/Videl relationship was a huge missed opportunity for some interesting character growth and it pissed me off how Toriyama glossed over that. Not only could she have been used to help Gohan heal from the emotional stuff he's been through but in dangerous situations like the one with Dabura and Majin Buu being hatched it would have had so much more tension if we know that a fragile human like Videl can die at any time if Gohan screws up. And if she was going to die later on anyway why not have it be then and serve as motivation for Gohan to get stronger and beat Buu later on?

Ugh.. I feel like I'm on a tangent now so I'll stop. :silent:

hyperbeing1
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:05 am

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by hyperbeing1 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:01 pm

NitroEX wrote:
IDreamtIWasABee wrote:Gohan is extremely sensitive and probably emotionally repressed, even as a teenager. His difficulty accessing and handling his power is a sloppy metaphor for emotional introspection. Goten and Trunks don't have this problem/gift.
That's a really interesting way of looking at it.

It's a shame this type of thing couldn't have been explored more during the Buu arc as realistically Gohan would have suffered a lot of trauma from his experience during the Cell games as a child never mind the Saiyan/Freeza stuff. I get the typically happy story world of Dragonball would have problems delving into darker territory like that but perhaps it would have helped the audience connect to Gohan more if he wasn't bred by Toriyama to be a watered down Goku 2.0 and had problems his powers couldn't solve.

The Gohan/Videl relationship was a huge missed opportunity for some interesting character growth and it pissed me off how Toriyama glossed over that. Not only could she have been used to help Gohan heal from the emotional stuff he's been through but in dangerous situations like the one with Dabura and Majin Buu being hatched it would have had so much more tension if we know that a fragile human like Videl can die at any time if Gohan screws up. And if she was going to die later on anyway why not have it be then and serve as motivation for Gohan to get stronger and beat Buu later on?

Ugh.. I feel like I'm on a tangent now so I'll stop. :silent:
my gosh you absolutely right. how did i miss that. though i guess akira wanted to make it more of a gag manga again that he glossed over some pretty good story points like marrons conception or how krillin got 18 to marry him and where is 17 and why he is not with 18.

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by Bussani » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:28 pm

Kaboom wrote:I don't think they're necessarily all that different... it could just be that Trunks and Goten's "potential" has manifested in different ways.
I like this explanation, too. Personally, I prefer it to the "Super Sperm" idea for one reason or another. Goten and Trunks have completely different personalities from Gohan, so it would make sense for their hybrid powers to come out in different ways. You could say that they were all born with similar amounts of power, but Gohan's was all bottled up due to his reserved nature, whereas the other two's just spewed out because they're hyperactive, competitive little monkey children.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

User avatar
Galan007
Regular
Posts: 572
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by Galan007 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:25 pm

rereboy wrote:Their fathers were SSJ when they were conceived. Who knows what kind of changes that produces on a Saiyan, not to mention that it would make perfect sense for a warrior race to transmit their own strength as much as possible into their offspring, biologically speaking. So... super sperm.
Other than Akira simply needing them to start off at a relatively high level for his fusion/Gotenks concept to blossom out, this is about the best assertion that can be made, honestly.

Simply put: SSJ transformations change almost every facet of a Saiyan's biology--strength/speed/senses/etc. they are ALL boosted by predetermined SSJ multipliers. Clearly this 'trait', once attained, is hereditary and passes to their offspring.

hyperbeing1
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:05 am

Re: Why are Goten and Trunks bigger "prodigies" than Gohan?

Post by hyperbeing1 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:02 am

Galan007 wrote:
rereboy wrote:Their fathers were SSJ when they were conceived. Who knows what kind of changes that produces on a Saiyan, not to mention that it would make perfect sense for a warrior race to transmit their own strength as much as possible into their offspring, biologically speaking. So... super sperm.
Other than Akira simply needing them to start off at a relatively high level for his fusion/Gotenks concept to blossom out, this is about the best assertion that can be made, honestly.

Simply put: SSJ transformations change almost every facet of a Saiyan's biology--strength/speed/senses/etc. they are ALL boosted by predetermined SSJ multipliers. Clearly this 'trait', once attained, is hereditary and passes to their offspring.
the small issue is that i am uncertain if vegeta was ssj when trunks was born. what do you think on the theory that when trunks learned goten turn ssj he became frustrated and trained himself so he could unlock ssj as well so he wont lose his cool status in goten's eyes.

Post Reply