Freeza isn't the type to train?

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Regarder
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Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Regarder » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:01 pm

This seems to be a fairly common fan belief, and it was used in Dragonball Multiverse as well. Does it appear anywhere in the manga or anime, or is it just a wholesale fan invention? Did people assume he isn't the type to train even though he has all these incredible varied attacks and seems obsessed with battle power, just because he sits in a hover chair sipping space wine while lackeys do stuff?

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Darkron2151 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:07 pm

Regarder wrote:This seems to be a fairly common fan belief, and it was used in Dragonball Multiverse as well. Does it appear anywhere in the manga or anime, or is it just a wholesale fan invention? Did people assume he isn't the type to train even though he has all these incredible varied attacks and seems obsessed with battle power, just because he sits in a hover chair sipping space wine while lackeys do stuff?
He had a vast Monkey Empire to rule over. I don't think anyone of the Galactic Trade Organization trained unless they were soldiers that were off duty and weren't clearing out planets.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:16 pm

I think it's because Freeza never really needed to train. His Battle Power was always abnormally high, so he'd win all of his battles by default.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Galan007 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:26 pm

It was never stated in the manga that Freeza didn't train. However, I could definitely subscribe to the notion that he didn't train after coming to power. He was, after all, several orders of magnitude more powerful than any other mortal being in the universe, prior to Goku becoming a SSJ... And he seemed quite comfortable in that role/status.

Heck, Freeza probably never even thought he'd have to transform beyond his base form just to beat an opponent, so indulging in high-intensity training just to increase his battle power(which, again, already exceeded everyone else's in the universe by an astronomical margin) seems like it would have taken a backseat to more pressing matters like: ruling his vast empire/organization, and asserting his dominance throughout the universe(which seemed like rather tedious tasks.) /shrug

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by B » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:49 pm

Toriyama has, through recent interviews, revealed that Freeza and King Cold are mutants with abnormal strength, but I would say it was still always implied that they didn't have to work for their powers.
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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Marco Polo » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:54 pm

The only training he did was to transform to weaker forms.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Regarder » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:27 pm

And learning all his different attacks, and learning how to suppress and increase his ki within a form, and learning how to buff up to increase his power in his final form. His discs are pretty impressive and better than Krillin's. He might not train like the Saiyans do, but I'm sure he trained a lot in the past, and he certainly knows martial arts techniques.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Marco Polo » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:33 pm

What makes you think he had to train to get these attacks? Even a (relative) weakling like Tenshinhan can learn attacks from just watching them once.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Regarder » Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:45 pm

Marco Polo wrote:What makes you think he had to train to get these attacks? Even a (relative) weakling like Tenshinhan can learn attacks from just watching them once.
Tenshinhan is supposed to be at least a talented martial artist who has trained enough to have understanding of ki attacks. The first couple of times an attack was copied it was portrayed as being a decent feat anyway.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:21 pm

Given that he is one of the most skilled fighters in the series, it goes without question that he did train in the past, but he also definitely had an abnormal power from the start.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Regarder » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:24 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Given that he is one of the most skilled fighters in the series, it goes without question that he did train in the past, but he also definitely had an abnormal power from the start.
Sure. He is a "mutant". The Saiyans always had the potential for even greater power than humans or even Freeza's clan as well, so (fake) genetics matter in DB.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:31 pm

Chapter: 310 (DBZ 116), P2.2-3
Freeza: “I didn’t think you’d be this good…You’re the first person besides my parent who’s got dust on me…This might be the first time in my life I’ve been so excited…”
Note: the word used here for parent (oya) could be either singular or plural. Which has nothing to do with strength, I just felt like pointing that out


I'd say he at least did some training. He had to do some to limit his power with transformations, and it seems he did some sparing with King Cold.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Regarder » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:36 pm

That and he's excited by a fight.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by rereboy » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:06 pm

There's a very important distinction here. There's training to figure out how to use and handle power and there's training to actually increase the already existing power.

With that in mind, its heavily implied in the manga that Freeza's power is just his natural power. That being so, if he ever did any training it was probably just training to handle and use that power. I don't imagine that he ever did any training to actually increase his existing power.

Btw, DBM was talking about training to increase existing power.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Marco Polo » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:59 am

dbzfan7 wrote:
Chapter: 310 (DBZ 116), P2.2-3
Freeza: “I didn’t think you’d be this good…You’re the first person besides my parent who’s got dust on me…This might be the first time in my life I’ve been so excited…”
Note: the word used here for parent (oya) could be either singular or plural. Which has nothing to do with strength, I just felt like pointing that out


I'd say he at least did some training. He had to do some to limit his power with transformations, and it seems he did some sparing with King Cold.

No, what it seems is that King Cold was a violent parent.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:51 am

rereboy wrote:its heavily implied in the manga that Freeza's power is just his natural power.
Where?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by rereboy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:39 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
rereboy wrote:its heavily implied in the manga that Freeza's power is just his natural power.
Where?
In literally everything about him. For example, from the way his transformations work, from the fact that he thought that there was no one stronger than Ginyu (besides his family), from the fact that he stated that only his parent(s) had ever actually hit him (in his real form), from the way he behaves, etc.

It all points to him just being naturally amazingly strong and that he never actually encountered anyone even remotely able to even hit him while in his natural form besides his own family. And given his preference to giving orders rather than doing things himself, its really unlikely he would push himself to become even stronger when there's no need. Therefore, any training that he did was almost surely more about handling his power than becoming even stronger.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Galan007 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:42 pm

Freeza definitely had to have undergone significant training at *some* point, imo. He may have been born with absurd levels of power, but he surely must've trained intensely to become as skilled of a fighter as he was, and also to regress his 'true' form into weaker forms to conserve power. Furthermore, I doubt he was born with knowledge of how to use the various types of energy attacks he displayed--that may have required a good deal of training as well. /shrug

However, I can't imagine that Freeza would have trained much at all in the decadeS prior to the Namek saga. Even back when he destroyed planet Vegeta, he was already a well-established galactic tyrant, and had absolutely NO rivals in the universe(even in his base level.) By that point, training to increase his battle power would've been somewhat superfluous.
Last edited by Galan007 on Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by rereboy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:51 pm

Galan007 wrote:Freeza definitely had to have undergone significant training at *some* point, imo. He may have been born with absurd levels of power, but he surely must've trained intensely to become as skilled of a fighter as he was, and also to regress his 'true' form into weaker forms to conserve power. Furthermore, I doubt he was born with knowledge of how to use the various types of energy attacks he displayed--that may have required a good deal of training as well. /shrug

However, I can't imagine that he would have trained much at all in the decadeS prior to the Namek saga. He was already a well-established galactic tyrant, and had absolutely NO rivals in the universe(even in his base level.) By that point, training to increase his battle power would've been somewhat superfluous.
That would be training to properly use and handle his power. Not to actually increase it. Like I said, that's a very important distinction.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Galan007 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:02 pm

I am simply talking about training in general.

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