Freeza isn't the type to train?

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dbzfan7
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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:11 pm

Hitiro wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Or all of his ki techniques, psychic abilities, controlling his power through transformations. In a series where martial arts fighting is pretty much the main thing, I can't imagine Freeza being some brawler who just throws random punches and kicks with no technique at all. I'm sure he has some martial arts training and understanding.
I don't think anybody said he didn't learn martial arts though, did they? But he could learn martial arts and not "train." He can practice the moves but he doesn't have to increase his strength at all through actual training. A king might learn swordsmanship through swords play. But he doesn't have to hone his physique and stamina through arduous training involving weights or extreme repetition. And considering Boo it seems like there are just individuals that just learn Ki abilities really easily.
But he has to train to hone his skills. I have no reason to believe he didn't train at all. Goku would point out his form is sloppy or amateurish if he hardly trained. Even if your stronger and faster, doesn't mean your form, stance, and fighting technique can't be poor.
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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Hitiro » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:11 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:But he has to train to hone his skills. I have no reason to believe he didn't train at all. Goku would point out his form is sloppy or amateurish if he hardly trained. Even if your stronger and faster, doesn't mean your form, stance, and fighting technique can't be poor.
Goku can't really say anything about an opponents form if they're 40 times stronger than him really. But Goku does kind of hint at it when he was avoiding the Kienzan.
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter 326 (DBZ 132), P4.1-5
Context: after Goku dodges his homing blast
Freeza: “An afterimage, huh?...You’re pretty good, aint’cha?...”
Goku: “Like I thought, I don’t have any desire to fight you as you are now…With you pinning your hopes on a worthless technique like that…If you really want to settle the score with me, recover your stamina and polish your skills.
Freeza: “Yo-you’re calling my technique worthless?...Well then, how about two of them?!”
In this quote Goku calls Freeza's technique worthless and he tells him to polish his skills. But take what you will of it.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by dbzfan7 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:40 am

Hitiro wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:But he has to train to hone his skills. I have no reason to believe he didn't train at all. Goku would point out his form is sloppy or amateurish if he hardly trained. Even if your stronger and faster, doesn't mean your form, stance, and fighting technique can't be poor.
Goku can't really say anything about an opponents form if they're 40 times stronger than him really. But Goku does kind of hint at it when he was avoiding the Kienzan.
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter 326 (DBZ 132), P4.1-5
Context: after Goku dodges his homing blast
Freeza: “An afterimage, huh?...You’re pretty good, aint’cha?...”
Goku: “Like I thought, I don’t have any desire to fight you as you are now…With you pinning your hopes on a worthless technique like that…If you really want to settle the score with me, recover your stamina and polish your skills.
Freeza: “Yo-you’re calling my technique worthless?...Well then, how about two of them?!”
In this quote Goku calls Freeza's technique worthless and he tells him to polish his skills. But take what you will of it.
Yeah essentially get stronger. I don't buy he never did any training. I'd believe he did some before he became an emperor as how he mentioned his parent in the past who he fought. He also knows the afterimage so he can't be clueless. Also Goku would also be calling the Kienzan shit since it's worse than what Freeza used.

Also sure Goku could. Before Freeza powered up to 50% they were fighting on par with advantage Freeza. During these warm up fights Goku would notice poor fighting styles and lack of skill when Freeza relied on fighting Goku with skill over simply overpowering him. That came once Freeza accessed Goku's power. During those warm ups where Goku could keep up and see his moves, he never once calls his fighting skills poor or amateurish, which is what an untrained person would be.
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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by hleV » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:46 am

I'd consider Freeza's abilities and techniques as having been learned through simple practice rather than actual training. Basically I don't think it took that much effort for him to learn all that stuff.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Regarder » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:34 am

I would have called practice training, so I think we are getting a bit semantic here. Most people think he didn't increase his battlepower by many many multiples, but I'm sure that he developed his techniques, and he may have increased his strength over time. I can imagine him taking practicing his aim as well, taking potshots at those training orbbots we see in filler.

Remember, Goku and Vegeta are like martial arts robots who train constantly. Just because Freeza likes to take it easy generally doesn't mean he doesn't train. He can be more like the person in real life who only does martial arts classes on the weekend. It's also easy for him to be very skilled and still be called pathetic by Goku, because it's Goku!

I don't imagine him not trying to increase his already large strength at all when he's so paranoid, but it's not going to compare to Saiyan training by any measure.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by rereboy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:00 am

Regarder wrote:
I don't imagine him not trying to increase his already large strength at all when he's so paranoid
Freeza flat out refused to train when Goku told him to, and he refused again to train after being rebuilt, which got him killed.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by hleV » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:31 am

Regarder wrote:I would have called practice training, so I think we are getting a bit semantic here.
While practice may be considered training, I wouldn't call the practice that Freeza, according to me, undergone "training". I consider training as something like making yourself or your techniques stronger/more efficient. Since I believe that Freeza simply tried practicing his techniques until he managed to perform them (not perfect them, if that's even a thing in DB), it's just "practice". For instance, one tries to do a backflip. They succeed due to being quite well fit and having the general idea of how to perform it. They succeed. Where's the training in this?
But of course this is all just speculation.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by ParkerAL » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:52 am

Hitiro wrote:
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter 326 (DBZ 132), P4.1-5
Context: after Goku dodges his homing blast
Freeza: “An afterimage, huh?...You’re pretty good, aint’cha?...”
Goku: “Like I thought, I don’t have any desire to fight you as you are now…With you pinning your hopes on a worthless technique like that…If you really want to settle the score with me, recover your stamina and polish your skills.
Freeza: “Yo-you’re calling my technique worthless?...Well then, how about two of them?!”
In this quote Goku calls Freeza's technique worthless and he tells him to polish his skills. But take what you will of it.
Image

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :lol:

Goku indirectly insulting a copy of his best friend's main attack makes me think he was just annoyed at Freeza at the time, and wasn't really giving the attack a fair assessment.
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Augenis wrote:The power level view into the series has trained a significant portion of the fan base into real life stereotypical members of the Freeza empire, where each and every individual is reduced to a floating number above their heads and any sudden changes to said number are met with shock and confusion.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Regarder » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:24 am

rereboy wrote: Freeza flat out refused to train when Goku told him to, and he refused again to train after being rebuilt, which got him killed.
He thought he was loads stronger as a cyborg and his new power would easily beat Goku.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by rereboy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:25 pm

Regarder wrote:
rereboy wrote: Freeza flat out refused to train when Goku told him to, and he refused again to train after being rebuilt, which got him killed.
He thought he was loads stronger as a cyborg and his new power would easily beat Goku.
Aka, just because he got a bit stronger he went full arrogance mode and didn't even consider training to get significantly stronger because he simply doesn't do that. And got killed like he was nothing.

If he actually was someone who trained to get stronger, that habit coupled with his need to kill Goku and be the strongest, would ensure that he actually trained seriously before fighting Goku again, to make sure he would be the winner. But he doesn't even consider it.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Diotor » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:28 pm

I think Freeza would have certainly trained when he was younger- no doubt until he was in a position of almost absolutely authority, matched only by Cooler and King Cold.

After that you get the impression of a being who is just so overwhelmingly powerful that nobody can even get close to him, so why need to train? Ignoring his father and Cooler the closest anyone came to him was Ginyu, who's own power level is minimal compared to even first form Freeza.

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Marco Polo » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:58 pm

Regarder wrote:
rereboy wrote: Freeza flat out refused to train when Goku told him to, and he refused again to train after being rebuilt, which got him killed.
He thought he was loads stronger as a cyborg and his new power would easily beat Goku.
If he didn't even train to beat the guy who effectively destroyed him once, what makes you think he trained before Namek when he thought he was the most powerful being in the universe?

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Re: Freeza isn't the type to train?

Post by Regarder » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:53 am

I know it's been a while, but I thought it would be worth bumping this purely so that we know it's settled. The creators have finally given a definitive answer on this. I was wrong.

See this post in the Fukkatsu no F thread.
kei17 wrote:Interesting things revealed at Jump Festa:
  • Krillin is a police officer.
  • Freeza trains for the first time in life.
  • Goku doesn't become Super Saiyan throughout the movie.
  • They haven't recorded the dialogue yet.
http://kanae.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/anim ... 309144/855

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