Base Vegetto placement

[Regarder]

Also, Goten and Trunks aren't many times weaker than the adults based off feats and IIRC databook. They are weaker for sure, but SS3 Gogeta shouldn't be vastly stronger than SS3 Gotenks. Whereas Vegetto really is based off his performance against Gohan-Buu, and even as just a SS.

[CatouttaHell]

I usually go with something like:

SSj Vegetto - 5,500
base Vegetto - 110
Gohan-Boo - 100
SSj3 Gogeta - 50

Boo was assuming Son and Vegeta were going to fuse into Gogeta and had no problems with this development, but wet his pants upon sensing base Vegetto's Ki, which implies base Vegetto >>> SSj3 Gogeta and possibly > Gohan-Boo.

SSj Vegetto was able to survive Boo's plot haxed candy beam which is an insane gap. He could be a billion times stronger than Gohan-Boo for all anyone knows.

[Kamiccolo9]

SSj Vegetto was able to survive Boo's plot haxed candy beam which is an insane gap. He could be a billion times stronger than Gohan-Boo for all anyone knows.

I wasn't aware there was a numerical formula to determine plot hax.

[Rocketman]

According to what?

According to the only reason it wasn't Gogeta is Toriyama inventing something new so as to not step on Toei's toes, and Toriyama doesn't care about your powuh lebels.

[Saiga]

Which doesn't have to mean they're exactly equal. Vegetto was overkill, so Gogeta could easily be far less overkill and still do what Toriyama wants.

He planned to use Gogeta before he outright said Potara was stronger. To think they're exactly equal given that is asinine.

[hleV]

Vegetto didn't need SS and it is made obvious later in the fight that he did not transform because he needed to (because he was surprised with how easily he handled Boo, meaning he didn't fully know his true power) and the reason he didn't power down is because it was pointless - any form of Vegetto is overkill for anyone, ever. SS looks cooler to the audience, too.

[Saiga]

There's absolutely no proof that he didn't need Super Saiyan at all.

[hleV]

There's absolutely no proof that he didn't need Super Saiyan at all.

There is absolutely no proof that he needed SS at all, in fact, SEG suggests otherwise by comparing him to Goku x Vegeta in BP. I'd only place Vegetto as possibly below Boo if SEG didn't exist. Or was anime-based, for that matter.

[CatouttaHell]

Gohan-Boo flat-out stated a hypothetical Gogeta would be no match for him.

Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P9.2
Context: as Goku heads to Vegeta with the Potara
Boo: “Now there’s another human with great power! But naturally he’s no match for me, even if they merged!”

And Son stated that there's no way for him and Vegeta to defeat Boo without using the Potara.

Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P8.8
Context: Goku tries to get Vegeta to use the Potara with him, but Vegeta refuses
Goku: “Knowing you, I thought you might say that…! There ain’t any other way to beat Majin Boo!”

SSj/base Vegetto >>> SSj3 Gogeta

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gohan-Boo flat-out stated a hypothetical Gogeta would be no match for him.

Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P9.2
Context: as Goku heads to Vegeta with the Potara
Boo: “Now there’s another human with great power! But naturally he’s no match for me, even if they merged!”

And Son stated that there's no way for him and Vegeta to defeat Boo without using the Potara.

Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P8.8
Context: Goku tries to get Vegeta to use the Potara with him, but Vegeta refuses
Goku: “Knowing you, I thought you might say that…! There ain’t any other way to beat Majin Boo!”

SSj/base Vegetto >>> SSj3 Gogeta

Here's a whole argument I set up for people who still believe Gogeta = or ~ Vegetto

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SFu ... uxDsYs/pub

also, you stop going on neoseeker now?

[CatouttaHell]

Here's a whole argument I set up for people who still believe Gogeta = or ~ Vegetto

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SFu ... uxDsYs/pub

also, you stop going on neoseeker now?

I only skimmed so far but that seems like a solid argument. I didn't know the Daizenshuu stated that Potara > Fusion is strength. I guess that throws out the logic that the manga somehow didn't mean Potara was stronger than Fusion when it said the effect is greater.

I got banned from Neo for a month so I'm polluting other forums with my presence for now haha.

[Rocketman]

But naturally he’s no match for me, even if they merged!”

He also said Vegetto would never- then Vegetto broke his nose.

And Son stated that there's no way for him and Vegeta to defeat Boo without using the Potara.

Because he didn't know Vegeta knew the Dance, and there was no time to teach him.


And Elder Kai says Vegetto's might is because of Goku and Vegeta, not the Potara itself.

[hleV]

And Elder Kai says Vegetto's might is because of Goku and Vegeta, not the Potara itself.

He actually said that Goku and Vegeta is one of the reasons for Vegetto's strength, the others being their rivalry and Potara being "just that amazing".

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

But naturally he’s no match for me, even if they merged!”

He also said Vegetto would never- then Vegetto broke his nose.

And Son stated that there's no way for him and Vegeta to defeat Boo without using the Potara.

Because he didn't know Vegeta knew the Dance, and there was no time to teach him.


And Elder Kai says Vegetto's might is because of Goku and Vegeta, not the Potara itself.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SFu ... uxDsYs/pub

[Rocketman]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SFu ... uxDsYs/pub

You're right, if the potara never existed, DBZ would've ended with Gohan-Buu effortlessly killing Gogeta and destroying all life.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SFu ... uxDsYs/pub

You're right, if the potara never existed, DBZ would've ended with Gohan-Buu effortlessly killing Gogeta and destroying all life.

That's what we call an out-of-universe explanation. Sure if Toei never used Gogeta, he could've showed up in the manga, but we don't know how it would've turned out. So we can't just assume what would've happened. Using in-universe evidence, Gogeta isn't as strong as everyone makes him out to be.

[hleV]

You're right, if the potara never existed, DBZ would've ended with Gohan-Buu effortlessly killing Gogeta and destroying all life.

While I don't necessarily fully agree with the notion that Goku and Vegeta's Metamorian fusion would be weaker than Gohan-Boo, it is made perfectly clear that Vegetto is stronger than said hypothetical fusion.

[Saiga]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SFu ... uxDsYs/pub

You're right, if the potara never existed, DBZ would've ended with Gohan-Buu effortlessly killing Gogeta and destroying all life.

If Toriyama used Gogeta, he would've written things differently. But he didn't, so the original plan has no impact on the final result.

[RandomGuy96]

You're right, if the potara never existed, DBZ would've ended with Gohan-Buu effortlessly killing Gogeta and destroying all life.

Or Goku would arrive five seconds late, and Buu would kill Gohan before Gotenks' fusion expired. Or he would have just had Goku teleport inside Buu using Gohan's ki, by having Gohan struggle for a little while before being knocked out cold inside Buu's body. Or Gogeta would have lost, but used a barrier while being absorbed anyway.

Because he didn't know Vegeta knew the Dance, and there was no time to teach him.

This explanation has been debunked.

Also: even after Elder Kaioshin had repeatedly told Goku that Potara was way stronger the the dance, Vegetto was still surprised by his ability to curb-stomp Buu. This leaves basically zero hope for Gogeta to be capable of the same feat.

He also said Vegetto would never- then Vegetto broke his nose.

He said Vegetto wouldn't be stronger than him, because he was unaware that this method of fusion was just way stronger than the other method for no reason. Then Vegetto started beating on him and he stopped talking shit.

And Elder Kai says Vegetto's might is because of Goku and Vegeta, not the Potara itself.

Context is key here. Who is he talking to?

[singsing]

This explanation has been debunked.

What? Is this how debates work now?

snip

This argument has been debunked.