Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losing?

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Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losing?

Post by Angelus » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:01 am

Meaning that Southern Kaioshin was more powerful than Kid Buu and since Kid Buu couldn't find a way to win... just opted to absorb Southern Kaioshin?

Also implying that Southern Supreme Kai is SSJ3 tier?

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Re: Was Southern Kaioshin truly more powerful than Kid Buu?

Post by Hitiro » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:04 am

Angelus wrote:Since Kid Buu did opt to absorb him.

Also implying that Southern Supreme Kai is SSJ3 tier?
I think it was more like Pure Boo had difficulty beating him. Not that the South Kaioshin is more powerful. He could be SSJ2 tier and have Ki techniques that amplify his attacks over 4x his power.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Angelus » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:07 am

But who could be SSJ2 tier that could stand a chance against Kid Buu? SSJ2 Vegeta didn't last long at all. I could imagine the same would have went whether it was SPC or Movie 10 LSSJ Broly.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Hitiro » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:11 am

Angelus wrote:But who could be SSJ2 tier that could stand a chance against Kid Buu? SSJ2 Vegeta didn't last long at all. I could imagine the same would have went whether it was SPC or Movie 10 LSSJ Broly.
I would imagine if Tenshinhan was SSJ2 tier his Kikoho would be a pretty effective against Pure Boo. I would also imagine characters like Piccolo would do effective attacks against him. It really depends on the Kaioshin's arsenal really. He could even be using the Kai-kai teleportation technique to deal with Pure Boo. He could even have restraint Ki type attacks like the Eastern Kaioshin.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Herms » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:29 am

In the manga we're not given any information outside of the bare fact that Boo killed the North and West Kaioshins, then absorbed the South Kaioshin, followed by the Grand Kaioshin. And East Kaioshin says that South was the strongest of the Kaioshins. That anime flashback does make it seem like Boo absorbed both Kaioshins more for the hell of it than anything else, but going only by the manga I guess we can't know for sure.

Still, since South Kaioshin was supposed to be the strongest of them, if we assuming absorbing him made Boo stronger, then presumably he wouldn't lose to Grand Kaioshin and therefore probably just absorbed him for fun like in the anime. I suppose it's possible that when East Kaioshin said South was strongest he meant only among the regular Kaioshins, and that the Grand Kaioshin was still stronger than the South, but this seems unlikely considering that East Kaioshins consistently talks about there having been "five Kaioshins" (so he doesn't put the Grand one in a separate category, as often happens when characters or guides talk about there being "four Kaios" plus the Grand Kaio). It could also be that Boo actually got weaker when he absorbed the South Kaioshin, but East Kaioshin only specifically says absorbing the Grand one weakened him. And of course, it could be that Grand Kaioshin managed to put up a good fight against Boo despite being weaker, through skill or strategy or something, forcing Boo to absorb him to win.

Some people also argue that South Kaioshin must be weaker than base Gohan, since only Gohan was able to pull out the Z Sword. But we're never told that South Kaioshin ever tried to pull out the Z Sword, only that many Kaioshins tried and failed.
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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Saiga » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:40 am

Herms wrote:
Some people also argue that South Kaioshin must be weaker than base Gohan, since only Gohan was able to pull out the Z Sword. But we're never told that South Kaioshin ever tried to pull out the Z Sword, only that many Kaioshins tried and failed.
You mean Super Saiyan Gohan, right? Since he was the one who drew the sword.
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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Herms » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:05 am

Saiga wrote:You mean Super Saiyan Gohan, right? Since he was the one who drew the sword.
Ah, that's true. I'm pretty sure I have seen people say South Kaioshin must be weaker than base Gohan though, I guess because he can swing the sword around or something.
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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Saiga » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:49 am

Herms wrote:
Saiga wrote:You mean Super Saiyan Gohan, right? Since he was the one who drew the sword.
Ah, that's true. I'm pretty sure I have seen people say South Kaioshin must be weaker than base Gohan though, I guess because he can swing the sword around or something.
I haven't seen that before but I guess it'd an extension of thinking the base Saiyans are stronger than Kaioshin due to the Babidi ship sequence.
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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:07 am

I've always thought that Mr. Buu might give us a good idea of how strong South Kaioshin was supposed to be.
It could also be that Boo actually got weaker when he absorbed the South Kaioshin,
No... no, it really couldn't.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Darkprince410 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:16 am

Herms wrote:
Saiga wrote:You mean Super Saiyan Gohan, right? Since he was the one who drew the sword.
Ah, that's true. I'm pretty sure I have seen people say South Kaioshin must be weaker than base Gohan though, I guess because he can swing the sword around or something.
I may be mistaken, but I think part of that stems from the dub. Again, I'm not 100% on this, but I seem to recall Kaioushin's wording on the whole drawing out the sword was that "all the Kaioushin" or "every Kaioushin" had attempted it and failed, making a definite that South Kaioushin had tried. Obviously, the original manga's statement of "countless" leaves it open though to him having not tried.

To your question though Angelus, I am personally of the opinion though that Buu absorbing South Kaioushin was out of necessity, that he was either losing the fight or just not making any kind of headway in it whatsoever. As for absorbing Dai Kaioushin, I think absorbing South Kaioushin conditioned him to see absorbing Kaioushin as a reward of sorts. If his mind were still feral and simplistic, then he may be thinking of it like how an animal would. Absorbing a Kaioushin made him stronger, so logically absorbing another Kaioushin would make him even moreso. He just didn't realize that not all Kaioushin would affect him the same way, and when he absorbed the Dai Kaioushin, he got punished for it.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Regarder » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:22 am

I'm pretty sure that South Kaioshin would have tried given that statement about the sword. Only the anime makes him look THAT strong. I don't even think people would have that idea in their heads if it wasn't for the filler material.

S.Kaioshin is stronger than base Gohan, but somewhat less than SS Gohan in terms of physical strength. He's a big guy type though, apparently, so it's not like he's going to compensate by being faster than Gohan. I don't think he could win against SS Gohan in a battle of pure fighting, let alone Buu.

Pure Buu is chaotic with everything he does, so he could have simply chosen to absorb him. The other possibility is that S.Kaioshin is good with magic and had something up his sleeve like the containment wave that forced Buu to absorb him.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Darkprince410 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:49 am

Regarder wrote:I'm pretty sure that South Kaioshin would have tried given that statement about the sword. Only the anime makes him look THAT strong. I don't even think people would have that idea in their heads if it wasn't for the filler material.
Why would that have been a reason to believe he tried? There's nothing to suggest that South Kaioushin, or any of the other Kaioushin for that matter, actively seek power for no reason. Until Pure Buu, there's nothing to suggest that the Kaioushin weren't strong enough to handle anything they faced off against, so why would he necessarily have wanted to try?

If you think about it though, it'd make the most sense for him to be that high. South Kaioushin Buu, who is established as being only Pure Buu after he absorbed South Kaioushin, is stated to be stronger than Evil Buu, who, even under the most modest of estimations, is still several times stronger than Ssj3 Goku (whom was stronger than Pure Buu). That power had to be coming from somewhere, and unless South Kaioushin's strength was somehow multiplied while inside Buu (which doesn't really fit what we see with any of the other absorptions), the only logical assumption is that he himself was stronger than Buu was.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Regarder » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:00 pm

Darkprince410 wrote: If you think about it though, it'd make the most sense for him to be that high. South Kaioushin Buu, who is established as being only Pure Buu after he absorbed South Kaioushin, is stated to be stronger than Evil Buu, who, even under the most modest of estimations, is still several times stronger than Ssj3 Goku (whom was stronger than Pure Buu). That power had to be coming from somewhere, and unless South Kaioushin's strength was somehow multiplied while inside Buu (which doesn't really fit what we see with any of the other absorptions), the only logical assumption is that he himself was stronger than Buu was.
You're right, but doesn't it say that all the Kaioshin have tried to life the sword. Wouldn't that include him? It's almost a plothole if we see absorption like that.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Darkprince410 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:41 pm

Regarder wrote:
Darkprince410 wrote: If you think about it though, it'd make the most sense for him to be that high. South Kaioushin Buu, who is established as being only Pure Buu after he absorbed South Kaioushin, is stated to be stronger than Evil Buu, who, even under the most modest of estimations, is still several times stronger than Ssj3 Goku (whom was stronger than Pure Buu). That power had to be coming from somewhere, and unless South Kaioushin's strength was somehow multiplied while inside Buu (which doesn't really fit what we see with any of the other absorptions), the only logical assumption is that he himself was stronger than Buu was.
You're right, but doesn't it say that all the Kaioshin have tried to life the sword. Wouldn't that include him? It's almost a plothole if we see absorption like that.
No, it's just that "numerous" had tried, which opens it up that there were potentially some that hadn't.
“A-are you serious, Lord Kaioshin…?!! There’s no way that a human or the like would be able to use the Z Sword!! That legendary sword which not merely myself, but numerous Kaioshins were utterly unable to handle…”
While it doesn't exclude the possibility that he may have tried, it specifically leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not he actually had.
Last edited by Darkprince410 on Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:05 pm

I know it's Kaioshin, but something about his amazement at the Saiyans and confidence in Gohan's power tells me they were on an entirely different level than SK. If we go by the filler, SK is really strong, but Kid Boo still took him down in one kick. It's really hard to tell how strong he is.
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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by Darkprince410 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:15 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I know it's Kaioshin, but something about his amazement at the Saiyans and confidence in Gohan's power tells me they were on an entirely different level than SK. If we go by the filler, SK is really strong, but Kid Boo still took him down in one kick. It's really hard to tell how strong he is.
Well, most of his statements about being awestruck at their abilities seemed to stem from them being of the lower world than in general.
“S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…
“…In-in this case…If I had known that there were people like you guys, who though human greatly surpassed my power…Th-there would have been that other method too…”
He was bewildered by the idea of humans having such tremendous power, not that the power itself was beyond anything he had really witnessed.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:17 pm

You're right, but doesn't it say that all the Kaioshin have tried to life the sword. Wouldn't that include him? It's almost a plothole if we see absorption like that.
I would think that, if he had actually tried, Kibito would say that all of the Kaioshin tried to pull it, or at least that the strongest tried. But he just said "numerous". The fact that he used himself as an example of someone that couldn't pull implied that the strongest kids on the block probably didn't care.

Also: Mr. Buu, who is just Dai Kaioshin and South Kaioshin merged by Majin skin, is strong enough to put up a decent fight against Pure Buu.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by BejitaSama » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:13 pm

It could also be that Boo actually got weaker when he absorbed the South Kaioshin,


No... no, it really couldn't.
Oh yes...yes, it can :D
a decent fight against Pure Buu.
When I see Pure Buu joking and beating Good Buu just with his legs (like Bejito against Buu Gohan), I don't called that a decent fight. But I know what you think about it. Just totally disagree.
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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:14 pm

BejitaSama wrote:
It could also be that Boo actually got weaker when he absorbed the South Kaioshin,


No... no, it really couldn't.
Oh yes...yes, it can :D
No... no, it really couldn't.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Did Kid Buu absorb Southern Kaioshin only to avoid losin

Post by BejitaSama » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:19 pm

Have you a phobia of Pure Buu ? It's amazing to see how the idea of him being stronger than Super Buu makes you so virulent :lol:

You really are narrow minded to think that only your perceptions are possible.
Last edited by BejitaSama on Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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