Are Androids 19 and 20 stronger than Freeza?

[Kamiccolo9]

Remember 50% Freeza vs. Goku? Where Freeza was 20x stronger than Goku, Goku couldn't land a punch, and Freeza's punches didn't take Goku's head off there?

Was Freeza suppressed or holding back?

Remember SSJ 2 Gohan vs. Cell? Where Gohan could've finished Cell off but he didn't?

Was Gohan suppressing or holding back?

Both. Because they are the same thing.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

They are synonymous, but there's still a difference.

[Kamiccolo9]

They are synonymous, but there's still a difference.

syn·o·nym
ˈsinəˌnim/Submit
noun
a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.

What you are talking about doesn't qualify as a synonym.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

They are synonymous, but there's still a difference.

syn·o·nym
ˈsinəˌnim/Submit
noun
a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.

What you are talking about doesn't qualify as a synonym.

Kinda does.

Suppressing is base Goku fighting Freeza evenly.

Holding back is 50% Freeza not breaking every bone in Goku's body with a single hit.

[Kamiccolo9]

They are synonymous, but there's still a difference.

syn·o·nym
ˈsinəˌnim/Submit
noun
a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close.

What you are talking about doesn't qualify as a synonym.

Kinda does.

Suppressing is base Goku fighting Freeza evenly.

Holding back is 50% Freeza not breaking every bone in Goku's body with a single hit.

No, it really doesn't, especially with the example you gave right afterwards on why you think they are different. If they are different, they are not synonyms.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Yes it does, because they are similar

Suppression always fall under holding back, because you are not going all out.

Holding back doesn't always fall under suppression, because you can still hold back without suppressing your ki.

[Hitiro]

Major villains*, my bad.

Do you consider #19 and #20 major villains then? I feel they are more like the Yakon and Pui Pui of the Android arc.

[Kamiccolo9]

Yes it does, because they are similar

Suppression always fall under holding back, because you are not going all out.

Holding back doesn't always fall under suppression, because you can still hold back without suppressing your ki.

"Similar" doesn't make a synonym. A wolf and a dog are "similar."
A synonym means that things are the same.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Do you consider #19 and #20 major villains then? I feel they are more like the Yakon and Pui Pui of the Android arc.

Maybe not major villains, but more significant than Pui Pui and Yakon

"Similar" doesn't make a synonym. A wolf and a dog are "similar."
A synonym means that things are the same.

The definition blatantly says "Nearly the same", which they are.

You don't seem to understand the Goku/Freeza fight.

Freeza isn't suppressed as Goku says Freeza's ki goes up, but Goku doesn't die in one punch, despite Freeza being 20x stronger than him, because Freeza doesn't put full force behind his punches, "holding back".

[Kamiccolo9]

"Similar" doesn't make a synonym. A wolf and a dog are "similar."
A synonym means that things are the same.

The definition blatantly says "Nearly the same", which they are.

You don't seem to understand the Goku/Freeza fight.

Freeza isn't suppressed as Goku says Freeza's ki goes up, but Goku doesn't die in one punch, despite Freeza being 20x stronger than him, because Freeza doesn't put full force behind his punches, "holding back".

Given the definitions you gave, they are not "nearly the same."

Your other point addresses the issue of power level gaps, which are not set in stone, with no concrete information from anything, making it invalid. You can't use fan theories as evidence to support other fan theories.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

It's not a "fan theory"

How is Freeza suppressed to a level where he doesn't kill Goku if his ki is higher than Goku's? Simple: He's not putting full force behind his punches

[Kamiccolo9]

It's not a "fan theory"

How is Freeza suppressed to a level where he doesn't kill Goku if his ki is higher than Goku's? Simple: He's not putting full force behind his punches

So, people can't survive blows from people stronger than them?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Idk, going by official numbers, Nappa is 4,000 making him less than 20x stronger than Tenshinhan, and his punch took Tenshinhan's arm off. So with Freeza and Goku (20x gap going by official numbers), why didn't Freeza's punch take Goku's arm off? Or his head off? Wherever he punched Goku.

[rereboy]

Idk, going by official numbers, Nappa is 4,000 making him less than 20x stronger than Tenshinhan, and his punch took Tenshinhan's arm off. So with Freeza and Goku (20x gap going by official numbers), why didn't Freeza's punch take Goku's arm off? Or his head off? Wherever he punched Goku.

Because things aren't that consistent. Nappa took Tenshinhan's arm off but he didn't explode when Goku punched him.

[Kamiccolo9]

Idk, going by official numbers, Nappa is 4,000 making him less than 20x stronger than Tenshinhan, and his punch took Tenshinhan's arm off. So with Freeza and Goku (20x gap going by official numbers), why didn't Freeza's punch take Goku's arm off? Or his head off? Wherever he punched Goku.

And yet, Pure Buu didn't immediately kill base Vegeta, despite being at least around 400x stronger than he is. In fact, there was no dismemberment at all. Freeza's battle power was over twice that of Vegeta's official power, yet they were able to fight relatively equally. That same level you provided for Nappa is less than half of the power that Goku had, yet he was able to survive multiple blows from Goku, and a blow from Goku at over 16 thousand to the spine didn't kill Nappa. Android 16, who was an ant compared to Perfect Cell, was able to restrain him briefly.

Prove that gaps are consistent, and then we'll talk. Until then, all you have is a fan theory, which can't prove another fan theory.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

It's not about gaps being consistent, it's just showing that fighters can be at full power and not put full force behind their hits. Unless you actually think Kid Boo punched Vegeta as hard as he did Goku.

I realize the words are synonymous, but when "suppress" is used in DBZ, it's referring to ki level.

Trunks could've been holding back against Goku, but he doesn't have to lower his ki level to do so. Just like Freeza can not kill Goku, but doesn't have to lower his ki to do so.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's not about gaps being consistent, it's just showing that fighters can be at full power and not put full force behind their hits. Unless you actually think Kid Boo punched Vegeta as hard as he did Goku.

I realize the words are synonymous, but when "suppress" is used in DBZ, it's referring to ki level.

Trunks could've been holding back against Goku, but he doesn't have to lower his ki level to do so. Just like Freeza can not kill Goku, but doesn't have to lower his ki to do so.

You have to prove that, using evidence from official material. Otherwise, that is a fan theory that holds no bearing on what anyone else has to use.

Logic dictates that they are the same, as the terms are synonymous. To claim otherwise, you need to back that up.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

It's like RandomGuy said:

I think he's trying to say that there's a difference between not hitting as hard as you can/not moving as fast as you can and actually lowering your battle power. The former is what Nappa did to not cave in Ten's skull with a kick, as well as what Recoome tried and failed to do with Krillin, while the latter is what Goku did when he first arrived on the scene with a battle power of 5,000. Like, just because you're at full power doesn't mean you always have to be throwing your hardest punches and moving at a sprint.

Like you can either tap something or punch it as hard as you can, but obviously you're not suppressing your battle power, just not using full effort.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's like RandomGuy said:

I think he's trying to say that there's a difference between not hitting as hard as you can/not moving as fast as you can and actually lowering your battle power. The former is what Nappa did to not cave in Ten's skull with a kick, as well as what Recoome tried and failed to do with Krillin, while the latter is what Goku did when he first arrived on the scene with a battle power of 5,000. Like, just because you're at full power doesn't mean you always have to be throwing your hardest punches and moving at a sprint.

Like you can either tap something or punch it as hard as you can, but obviously you're not suppressing your battle power, just not using full effort.

Strength rises with battle power, likewise, it decreases with battle power. We know this. If someone is not using their full strength, then they are not using their full battle power.

Again, you have to prove your argument. You haven't done that.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Except you don't have to lower your battle power to not use full force, that's when your muscles come into play.

Do you suppress your battle power when you're holding a glass of water so you don't break it? Or do you just not use the full force of your grip so it doesn't break?