How strong are the Android arc humans?

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SSJ2FutureGohan
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How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:00 am

I usually felt as though the humans in the Android arc were in the low millions or high hundred thousands at best, but there seems to be some implications suggesting otherwise.

-Goku and Piccolo both say that you shouldn't come if you don't think you can help. With the knowledge that the Androids are stronger than SSJ Trunks (Mecha arc), yet all 3 of the humans show up.

-Tenshinhan says he left Chaozu behind because he didn't feel like Chaozu was strong enough, which suggests that Tenshinhan does think he is strong enough to fight the Androids who are supposed to be stronger than SSJ Trunks.

-The Androids state they can get a large amount of energy from Yamcha:
Chapter 338 (DBZ 144), P11.4 wrote:No.19: “No, it is not Son Goku…He doesn’t match the data. There’s a 96% chance this is the human known as Yamcha…”
No.20: “At any rate, we’ll be able to obtain a large amount of energy.”
Would two guys who should atleast be stronger than or close to Freeza really consider like ~3,000,000 (at best) a valuable source of energy?
Chapter 340 (DBZ 146), P3.2 wrote:Yamcha: “Fra-frankly I don’t want to go…Sorry…Those guys…nearly killed me and I was helpless to resist…”
It's not until after Yamcha tries and fails does he want to not fight, meaning he was planning to fight the Androids all along, knowing they are stronger than SSJ Trunks (Mecha arc).

-Piccolo tries to stop the humans from fighting 2 times.
Chapter: 345 (DBZ 151), P6.6 wrote:Context: after Tenshinhan, Gohan, and Kuririn want to chase after No.20
Piccolo: “I understand…But don’t try and fight him. He’s not an opponent you guys could handle…”
Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P14.6 wrote:Context: as Piccolo goes to fight the androids
Piccolo: “Don’t come, you guys. You ought to know that it would be pointless.”
Yet he had no objection to everyone wanting to fight before the Androids appeared.

Also, Goku got mad at Tenshinhan for fending of Stage 2 Cell, but had no objection to Tenshinhan coming to fight the Androids.
Chapter: 345 (DBZ 151), P14.7 wrote:Context: after seeing that Gohan, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Kuririn had followed him
No.20: “If I collect their energy and add it to my own, I’ll be able to win against Vegeta!”
So, suppressed Piccolo, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Gohan should be enough to beat SSJ Vegeta.

So how strong are they?

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by MajinMan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:41 am

The thing is Toriyama tried to get rid of power levels at that point of the series, because it was creating this impossible and insane gaps and the numbers were hitting like 150 million. But if I were to rank the humans I would put them at:

Yamcha: 40,000-50,000

Krillin: 60,000-70,000

Tien: 100,000-120,000

You have to remember that power levels are basically bullshit at this point so these numbers might not mean anything at all. Also when Gero stated that Yamcha had a lot of energy, I don't think he meant it was on par with a first form Freeza because he said the last battle he observed was Goku vs Vegeta. During that battle they were both really weak and Yamcha is like 4 times stronger than them at that point so they were probably surprised with his strength. Also I think Gero was in panic mode and was shitting bricks at that point so I believe he wouldn't be strong enough to beat Vegeta even if he absorbs everyones power unless Piccolo has enough to give him an edge.

So it goes Goku/Vegeta>>>Piccolo>>>>>>>>>>>Humans. This is all opinion of course.
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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by flashback0180 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:14 am

Strong as or greater than the gynu squad

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Blade » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:56 am

flashback0180 wrote:Strong as or greater than the gynu squad
Eh, I'm not fully convinced for Yamcha in that respect. I see it unlikely that he's able to hit the sort of power that Goku had when he arrived on Namek. I don't see him as being anywhere near Ginyu.
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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Diotor » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:15 am

Blade wrote:
flashback0180 wrote:Strong as or greater than the gynu squad
Eh, I'm not fully convinced for Yamcha in that respect. I see it unlikely that he's able to hit the sort of power that Goku had when he arrived on Namek. I don't see him as being anywhere near Ginyu.
I certainly think all three of them could take anyone in the Ginyu Force that wasn't Ginyu. Krillin and Tenshinhan are likely to be significantly above Ginyu. Yamcha? Possibly, but hard to say.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:41 am

If everyone gets about 10-100 times more powerful:

Freeza 4 > Piccolo [40-80 millions] > Freeza 3 > Tenshinhan [1-2 millions] > Freeza 2 > Kuririn [500k-1M] > Freeza 1 > Yamcha [100k-500k] > Ginyu > Chiaotzu [50k-100k] > Nail

Then, their battlepowers vary around 1 million.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:48 am

Hugo Boss wrote:If everyone gets about 10-100 times more powerful:

Freeza 4 > Piccolo [40-80 millions] > Freeza 3 > Tenshinhan [1-2 millions] > Freeza 2 > Kuririn [500k-1M] > Freeza 1 > Yamcha [100k-500k] > Ginyu > Chiaotzu [50k-100k] > Nail

Then, their battlepowers vary around 1 million.
Kuririn is supposed to be stronger than Tenshinhan

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:58 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Kuririn is supposed to be stronger than Tenshinhan
That's debatable. Kuririn doesn't accomplish anything relevant in this arc regarding strenght, while Tenshinhan was able to stop Cell for a while. Tenshinhan also was never directly compared to Kuririn.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:19 am

Hugo Boss wrote:That's debatable. Kuririn doesn't accomplish anything relevant in this arc regarding strenght, while Tenshinhan was able to stop Cell for a while. Tenshinhan also was never directly compared to Kuririn.
I don't see how it's debatable... The author, Yamcha, and all promotional material say Kuririn is the strongest earthling male... and they have no comparable feats...

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:38 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:That's debatable. Kuririn doesn't accomplish anything relevant in this arc regarding strenght, while Tenshinhan was able to stop Cell for a while. Tenshinhan also was never directly compared to Kuririn.
I don't see how it's debatable... The author, Yamcha, and all promotional material say Kuririn is the strongest earthling male... and they have no comparable feats...
Yeah, Toriyama pretty much said Krillin is strongest human on planet. So there is not debate up for that. But one thing you have to wonder is does Tien even qualify as a human? I don't think so, personally.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:42 am

MajinMan wrote:So it goes Goku/Vegeta>>>Piccolo>>>>>>>>>>>Humans. This is all opinion of course.
I always thought it was Gohan>Goku>Vegeta>Trunks/Goten>>Piccolo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Humans

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:59 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Yeah, Toriyama pretty much said Krillin is strongest human on planet. So there is not debate up for that. But one thing you have to wonder is does Tenshinhan even qualify as a human? I don't think so, personally.
They said strongest earthling male, not human. And the Daizenshuu classifies Tenshinhan as an earthling.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:17 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:They said strongest earthling male, not human. And the Daizenshuu classifies Tenshinhan as an earthling.
Those three eyes though... :)

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:37 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:That's debatable. Kuririn doesn't accomplish anything relevant in this arc regarding strenght, while Tenshinhan was able to stop Cell for a while. Tenshinhan also was never directly compared to Kuririn.
I don't see how it's debatable... The author, Yamcha, and all promotional material say Kuririn is the strongest earthling male... and they have no comparable feats...
It depends on how you define "strongest Earthling male" and, since I don't know what Toriyama is referring to, I guess I could have him stronger than ordinary humans in general.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Diotor » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:14 pm

I honestly doubt that there is that much between Krillin and Tenshinhan. Using the 10-100x power calculator I'd maybe have as much as 50,000 between them or as low as 5,000. If they actually fought it certainly wouldn't be an easy match either way.

They're both miles above any other human, regardless.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:02 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:That's debatable. Kuririn doesn't accomplish anything relevant in this arc regarding strenght, while Tenshinhan was able to stop Cell for a while. Tenshinhan also was never directly compared to Kuririn.
I don't see how it's debatable... The author, Yamcha, and all promotional material say Kuririn is the strongest earthling male... and they have no comparable feats...
It depends on how you define "strongest Earthling male" and, since I don't know what Toriyama is referring to, I guess I could have him stronger than ordinary humans in general.
In regards specifically to Yamcha's statement, you have to remember that it's very, very likely that Yamcha doesn't know of Tenshinhan's origins, nor do we even know if Tenshinhan himself knows about his origins. The three-eyed alien tribe first appeared in the Daizenshuu after the fact, and at no point in the manga was it ever stated or suggested that Tenshinhan wasn't human. Given the other bizarre looking humans running around (Kuririn for example), I doubt anyone would second guess the idea of Tenshinhan being a human. So for all we know, no one actually knows in-universe that Tenshinhan is of alien descent, thus Yamcha's bit of dialogue should include him.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:44 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:It depends on how you define "strongest Earthling male" and, since I don't know what Toriyama is referring to, I guess I could have him stronger than ordinary humans in general.
Tenshinhan and Kuririn are both earthlings ... and males ...

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:47 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:In regards specifically to Yamcha's statement, you have to remember that it's very, very likely that Yamcha doesn't know of Tenshinhan's origins, nor do we even know if Tenshinhan himself knows about his origins. The three-eyed alien tribe first appeared in the Daizenshuu after the fact, and at no point in the manga was it ever stated or suggested that Tenshinhan wasn't human. Given the other bizarre looking humans running around (Kuririn for example), I doubt anyone would second guess the idea of Tenshinhan being a human. So for all we know, no one actually knows in-universe that Tenshinhan is of alien descent, thus Yamcha's bit of dialogue should include him.
I need a direct comparison between Kuririn and Tenshinhan to assume who is actually stronger and, since there are only those vague implications, it's too hard to define what is Toriyama's intent with that. I don't even think Yamcha is including himself in that statement, because he wasn't participating in the tournament.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Tenshinhan and Kuririn are both earthlings ... and males ...
Gohan is an Earthling and is male.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:40 pm

Gohan is an Earthling and is male.
Now you're just reaching tbh. There'd be no reason for Yamcha to exclude Tenshinhan from that statement, considering they believe Tenshinhan to be an Earthling, Piccolo even called Tenshinhan an Earthling before. Gohan has a more defining race, saiyan, atleast in their minds.

There's literally no comparable feats between the two, and a ton of material saying Kuririn is the Earthling male, so why people need a way to twist all of it around and somehow come up with excuses about Tenshinhan's race or to twist the author's words still baffles me.

And there's this:

Kuririn said if Piccolo didn't enter the Budokai, he could place in top 5 (18, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, him). He later says he couldn't find Tenshinhan, so he was planning on inviting Tenshinhan and placing in the top 5, meaning he thinks he could beat Tenshinhan (in a tournament setting atleast.)

Also, Yamcha's statement was to himself, and there is no indication that it excludes Tenshinhan, none at all.

And there's stilllll no evidence going in favor of Tenshinhan... none.. so I don't know how people continue to argue on it.

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Re: How strong are the Android arc humans?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:59 am

Try to avoid saying people twist things/make excuses or using provocative pontuation when they don't agree with you, please. It is not a good way to express your opinion and it makes you look childish. You can be better than that.

I never said Kuririn can't beat Tenshinhan in the tournament, but there is no way to know until they fight. As for having none indication about Tenshinhan being stronger, I can point a few instances that maybe can lead one to start believing in that.
  • Tenshinhan never commented on Kuririn's progress when they fought the cyborgs.
  • Tenshinhan tried to fight No.17 while Kuririn was just paralized.
  • Tenshinhan was able to stop Cell with Neo Kikoho.
  • Tenshinhan said they probably wouldn't meet again after defeating Cell so Kuririn said to Goku he wouldn't come to the tournament either way.
  • Kuririn didn't even offer any significant resistance against Evil Boo when he turned everyone into chocolate, while Tenshinhan was stated to be quite a master.
Nothing concrete, but apparently it's too hard for me to say Kuririn is stronger because he doesn't do anything as impressive as Tenshinhan does sometimes.

And I still don't understand why Gohan, Trunks or Goten can't be classified as Earthlings. They are half Saiyan, half Earthling. I guess I could call them humans too.

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