Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
ZazamPow
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 480
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:48 pm

Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by ZazamPow » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:34 am

If anyone is keeping up with Bulma's blog counting down until Revival of F's release, you might have noticed something interesting Gohan had to say.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/02/22/of ... days-left/

He claims that he thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan, and then goes off to train until Freeza arrives.

So what gives? There's always been the question of why exactly Gohan never went Super Saiyan after his Kai powerup, it always seemed like he either couldn't, or could but it wouldn't amp him anymore. The Battle of Gods comes out and confuses everyone more by having him transform in trailers, only for the staff to realize they screwed up and edit it before release. But then this blog comes out, and surely the canonicity is in question, but still, do you think RoF will give some concrete answers on Gohan's state?
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."

Gohan deserves it.

User avatar
Rocketman
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10798
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Rocketman » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:54 am

It's because the people in charge can't (or won't, if attributed to malice) grasp 1. Gohan being stronger than everybody else 2. while his hair is black.

The entire fucking point of Mystic was that transformations were wrong and bad.

User avatar
lord turbo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:29 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by lord turbo » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:26 am

Adding onto what Rocketman said, its like no one, Toriyama included understands that Gohan isn't suppose to turn SSJ. He activates his Ultimate form by turning SSJ, Ultimate replaced SSJ, but whatever, they don't know what to do anymore it seems these days.
"Before one may reach Heaven, they must endure Hell first. Only then will you be able to attain serenity beyond a sea of strife." & "Fear is not a sign of cowardice but the recognition of danger. Those who ignore this basic emotion do so out of vanity and are thus quelled before victory." - Roy Teal Jr.

User avatar
Tectorman
Regular
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:19 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Tectorman » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:53 am

In the movie, he's got the black hair of the Mystic power-up when he gets trounced by Beers, but when they go through the ritual, he's SSJ like everyone else. Strictly speaking, it shouldn't have been necessary (after all, as far as we know, fetus-Pan wasn't a SSJ), but I guess he thought it was necessary. Maybe Pan gets an exemption due to not being born yet, but everyone else had to do something to unite their energies, and in that case, the lowest common denominator is SSJ since neither Goten nor Trunks can go higher.

As for why Gohan would still have it, well, he never lost it. It just became less useful. But since they're not doing any fighting during this ritual, he's not really losing anything for going SSJ.

As for Gohan using SSJ in the next movie, I can only think of two possibilities.

1) He's been slacking off again. And since the Mystic power-up is activated by a variation of going SSJ (depending on the translation), he first has to reacquire SSJ before he can go Mystic.

2) The Mystic transformation supercedes all of the SSJ transformations showcased up to the Buu Saga, but not the new understanding of SSJ that arose from BoG. Specifically, the idea that every single form of SSJ is a but a stepping stone to greater and greater masteries of more and more fundamental forms; i.e., Vegeta's Full Power SSJ2 outclassed SSJ3 and Goku's SSJ met and matched SSJG.

The Mystic transformation WAS the superior power-up, but must now be left behind so Gohan can get back on track.
Twilight: My library?! My library!! Do you have any idea how many books I had in there?!
Lord Tirek: How many, little princess?
Twilight: Over NINE THOUSAND!!!

User avatar
Rocketman
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10798
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Rocketman » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:57 am

Except Gohan is walking around constantly in the Mystic state during the Uub section, years after these movies supposedly happen.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by sintzu » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:58 am

It was never said anywhere that he can't use both.

In terms of why he said what he did it's probably because he hadn't done any training since the fight with Beerus and has gotten even weaker so he's not sure if he can go Ssj.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13014
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:01 am

If he hadn't forgoten in 7 years, why would he in 2 or 3 after using it?.....Ultimate Goku...that's why.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by sintzu » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:34 am

dbzfan7 wrote:If he hadn't forgoten in 7 years, why would he in 2 or 3 after using it ?

.....Ultimate Goku...that's why.
In those 7 years wasn't he stopping crime as a Ssj ? Or was that just a one time thing ?

That's not an in story reason.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13014
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:00 am

sintzu wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:If he hadn't forgoten in 7 years, why would he in 2 or 3 after using it ?

.....Ultimate Goku...that's why.
In those 7 years wasn't he stopping crime as a Ssj ? Or was that just a one time thing ?

That's not an in story reason.
Not from my understanding no. They mention Golden Warrior again...but chances are it's highly unlikely he was stopping crime for 7 years.

Sure it is. The SSJ God ritual did Ki-O-Suction, hence Ultimate Goku. He didn't like SSJ God so much, so with Ki-O-suction, he never has to dawn the form ever again.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20698
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:31 am

While it is weird to think that Gohan can't transform into a SSJ anymore I can see why some people are upset over the idea he seem to prioritizing his SSJ transformation as supposed to his much stronger Ultimate/Elder Kai Unlocked Ability form. Maybe he's become so rusty in terms of training and combat that he can't instantly become Ultimate Gohan and has to work his way from SSJ upwards again, which would be really stupid, but who knows.

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 3235
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:21 am

Gohan's comment is like breaking the 4th wall. I don't think it is supposed to be an element from the movie.

Trying to transform into Super Saiyan would result in him activating his Ultimate form, even if he is not in battle mode. Though, there is the thing about Goku suggesting transforming into Super Saiyan before using the Potara. He meant only him? Both?

Also, to make the comment make sense, Gohan should know Freeza would be revived before the audience, which doesn't make sense. Then, no obrigatory training at all.

User avatar
freezamite
Banned
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:57 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by freezamite » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:01 pm

Rocketman wrote:It's because the people in charge can't (or won't, if attributed to malice) grasp 1. Gohan being stronger than everybody else 2. while his hair is black.

The entire fucking point of Mystic was that transformations were wrong and bad.
First post nailed it. The advantage of mystic Gohan was to be able to use all his potential in his base state, which eliminated the drawback of the SSJ transformation (uneasiness) allowing him to reach higher heights than any other SSJ form.

Making him a SSJ defeats the purpose of the mystic ritual, only a retard would do that XD
And making him stronger as a SSJ directly contradicts the manga. I hope this is only for the promos like in BoG because Gohan turning SSJ would be a big disappointment.

User avatar
Rocketman
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10798
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Rocketman » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:05 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Maybe he's become so rusty in terms of training and combat that he can't instantly become Ultimate Gohan and has to work his way from SSJ upwards again, which would be really stupid, but who knows.
He doesn't have to "become" Mystic, it's his base state.

User avatar
Tunjevina
Newbie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Serbia

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Tunjevina » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:19 pm

Either this:
Lord Beerus wrote:Maybe he's become so rusty in terms of training and combat that he can't instantly become Ultimate Gohan and has to work his way from SSJ upwards again
Or this:
Tunjevina wrote:With a baby on a way, maybe whatever free time he had, he used it for studying, so he didn't train at all and lost the power old Kaioshin gave him.It's never been said that he can't lose that power if he doesn't train.And it's pure logic that he will became weaker without training.It took 1 day for old Kaioshin to make him that strong, several years without training and maybe his mystic power would be so weak that a Super Saiyan is again the best way for him to fight.
Two very simple, yet reasonable explanations.

What I don't understand about Gohan fans is: Are you disappointed because Gohan is not the strongest anymore even though he is not training at all, or are you disappointed cause he is not training anymore?

Seriously, sometimes I feel like you want Gohan to be a nerd, who is a great scholar, a Great Saiyaman, a great father & husband who doesn't train at all and somehow be the strongest?!!
Last edited by Tunjevina on Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mAcChaos
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1869
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by mAcChaos » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:49 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Maybe he's become so rusty in terms of training and combat that he can't instantly become Ultimate Gohan and has to work his way from SSJ upwards again, which would be really stupid, but who knows.
He doesn't have to "become" Mystic, it's his base state.
Isn't it possible that he lost enough power in base from slacking off, that he needs the SSJ multiplier again?
[i]"I have yet to show you, young warrior, what I'm truly capable of."[/i] - Cell

User avatar
Rocketman
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10798
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Rocketman » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:06 pm

Tunjevina wrote:Two very simple, yet reasonable explanations.
Too bad they're wrong.
What I don't understand about Gohan fans is: Are you disappointed because Gohan is not the strongest anymore even though he is not training at all, or are you disappointed cause he is not training anymore?
I dislike that Gohan is losing his unique traits (black-haired form being his best/strongest form, rage boosts) and not getting anything in return except to stand around gawping at ~goku~.

I dislike that they've made Mystic a transformation when it is explicitly not, just so they can get rid of it and downgrade him.

I dislike that he's being given Super Saiyan again, not as part of the endless road to growing stronger, but so he can get thrown back on the pile of golden-haired fodder.

I dislike how they're retconning the manga to jam all this shit into the years before Uub.

I dislike how Gohan, who's always been had the highest potential of anybody and who then got all of that potential released, was somehow surpassed by SS1 Vegeta, who topped out back with Majin Vegeta.

User avatar
sbk
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:37 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by sbk » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:19 pm

Tunjevina wrote: Seriously, sometimes I feel like you want Gohan to be a nerd, who is a great scholar, a Great Saiyaman, a great father & husband who doesn't train at all and somehow be the strongest?!!
Why does he need to be weakened so much to be all of the bolded tho? He can be all of the bolded without having him slack off and suddenly be so far below Goku and Vegeta.
He was extremely important against Raditz, Vegeta, in Namek, Cell, and he was badass in the Buu arc. His character deserves better than being the new Yamcha :?

User avatar
Marco Polo
I Live Here
Posts: 2951
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: France

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:36 pm

The blog is written in a mix of in-universe and out-of-universe, it's 4th-wall-breaking and not meant to be an actual part of the movie.

For example, if a character changes voice actors, the blog could easily have a tongue-in-cheek comment such as "Oh your voice has changed!" etc. but that would not be an in-universe comment.

Gohan not finding his dougi may be part of the movie but I wouldn't be surprised if it's also just a joke from and for the blog.

User avatar
Dayspring
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7753
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by Dayspring » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:57 pm

I don't understand the hate towards Gohan going SSJ post-Buu. Mystic isn't a transformation, it draws all the user's potential out to the forefront.

However, Gohan doesn't train because of that reason and others. Assuming any time passes since he first uses it, he will get weaker if he doesn't train to maintain that level of strength. Seeing how going SSJ is second nature to him, he just does that instead of train since it will draw out the energy that he lost.
Captain Christopher Pike wrote:The away team will consist of myself, Cadet Kirk, Mr. Sulu, and Ensign Olsen.
Freeza Heika wrote: for the land of the cool, and the home of the Appule
The Geeky Gentleman: For all your comics, movies, TV and other geeky needs.

singsing
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 776
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:40 pm

Re: Gohan thinks he can still become a Super Saiyan

Post by singsing » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:07 pm

Dayspring wrote:I don't understand the hate towards Gohan going SSJ post-Buu. Mystic isn't a transformation, it draws all the user's potential out to the forefront.

However, Gohan doesn't train because of that reason and others. Assuming any time passes since he first uses it, he will get weaker if he doesn't train to maintain that level of strength. Seeing how going SSJ is second nature to him, he just does that instead of train since it will draw out the energy that he lost.
But he was Mystic EoZ.

Post Reply