Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

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ZazamPow
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Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by ZazamPow » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:53 pm

I see a lot of debate on this topic, and understandably so between the various incarnations of Goku that exist, predominantly the original Japanese and then the re-done FUNimation script. I'm currently in a debate with someone right now who is saying that Goku is not actually stupid, but simply naive due to his upbringing in the wild. Then I've seen other people go so far as to say that hitting his head literally gave Goku brain damage, and that not only is he dumb, he's literally retarded (I mean that in the proper way).

What do you think? Is Goku simply naive, actually stupid, or straight up brain damaged?
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."

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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:00 am

Original: Naive (The Saga of Son Goku - Cell Saga), Idiot...and a bit of douche (Majin Boo Saga)
FUNiGoku: Idiot
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by ZazamPow » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:04 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Original: Naive (The Saga of Son Goku - Cell Saga), Idiot...and a bit of douche (Majin Boo Saga)
FUNiGoku: Idiot
Really? You're the first person to say this. FUNi Goku is usually seen as the more intelligent between the two, since he's less silly and more heroic, while the original is said to be stupid.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I swear, the Gohan fanboys won't be happy unless he just bends over and farts all of Freeza's men into the sun.
fadeddreams5 wrote: Honestly, this would only make me slightly satisfied. To make me happy, he'd also have to grab Freeza by the tail, drag him to the nearest toilet, and give him swirlies until he submits and calls him "daddy."

Gohan deserves it.

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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by sayian_nation_ » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:14 am

Can you really believe Goku is slow? No way he's slow I would say naive and him hitting his head was the explanation as to why he went from being destructive to a pure hearted child. He was programed to destroy and hitting his head in a way erased that. Just how I see it.

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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by dbzfan7 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:15 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Original: Naive (The Saga of Son Goku - Cell Saga), Idiot...and a bit of douche (Majin Boo Saga)
FUNiGoku: Idiot
This sounds about right.
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by ShaneisMC » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:43 am

Its all about perspective. Honestly, I see Goku for the most part as having genius level emotional intelligence. He absolutely makes some mistakes, but ultimately its not like (usually though not always) he would straight up let people get away with things while they were an extreme threat. He would try to see through into the good parts of every single person he met and usually had hope that they could turn their lives around, AFTER he had beaten them up or had at least pretty good confidence that if they were to try to pull something he would be able to defend himself again immediately. So no, while he absolutely made some very questionable decisions sometimes, he is no where NEAR stupid. No ones perfect after all.

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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:01 am

He's not an idiot. He grew up in the wild and is just ignorant.

I would say he's actually very smart, but devotes his time entirely on learning how to become a better fighter rather than acquiring what many may consider basic knowledge. His upbringing and form of life just gives him a very different perspective.
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:08 am

I am one of the ones who claim he's slow because of falling on his head. But no, not an idiot. Those were some really complicated battle plans he used against Freeza. And the Instant Kamehameha against Cell? Amazing!
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by Man-Child » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:31 am

I'd definitely say more naive. Goku's a genius regarding anything and everything related to martial arts (it's in his blood, after all), but growing up in seclusion for his entire childhood, he's not very knowledgeable about much else.
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:08 pm

I think he can be an idiot, but is also naïve. For instance, when he has Raditz's tail and believes that he would leave the planet if spared he was being naïve. When he fought Frieza without any fear, he was an idiot. When he spared Frieza's life, he was an idiot. But there are also times when he was very smart, such as using the Warp Kamehameha against Cell or realizing Gohan had the power to kill Cell once and for all.

By the end of the series when fighting Kid Buu, Goku realized that he couldn't spare Buu like with the others because he was too evil. Even though he considered for a moment that he may have had some good in him1, he realized by then that Buu was beyond redemption and fought him to the death. I think that it honestly reflects real life: You never stop growing up and learning no matter how old you are, and Goku is the same way.

1Right before the fight against Kid Buu starts on the Sacred World of the Kais, as Kid Buu starts beating his chest like a monkey, Goku considers it for a moment and decides he's too evil then attacks.

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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by sayian_nation_ » Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:26 pm

Ok I can understand him being an idiot. Though it's not his fault and I wouldn't say he's slow. That's kind of indicating that his learning ability is very restricted, like he can't learn anything new or something and that he can't go past his full potential. That I just don't agree with.

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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:01 pm

Goku is naive. Very naive. Always was, always has, always will be. I never really saw Goku as an idiot, just misinformed. I mean, living in seclusion for pretty much your entire childhood and into your teens really left him with a lack of understanding society as a whole to an absurd degree. I mean, hell, he was so misinformed he didn't even know the difference between boys and girls.
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by Blade » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:18 pm

I think he's sort of both, but what he lacks in conversational intellect and sharpness I think plays such a big part of him being viably pure of heart.

That said, whilst you see that side of his character throughout the manga, he grows to be morally ambiguous at best during the Cell and Buu arcs, where he keeps his cards close to his chest when it suits him and allows some pretty nasty things play out in order to facilitate his own pride, curiosities and what he regards as being the greater good or the bigger picture. He's clearly not a Machiavellian genius of political subterfuge, but he's at least adept at measuring a situation enough to manipulate it for his own purposes, even if it rarely ever works out as he plans, such as resulting in Buu committing genocide and destroying the Earth.
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:01 pm

Goku's underlying problem, from his ignoring his friends to sparing his enemies to staking the world on his sons at a moment's notice, is failing to understand that his actions have consequences, that the value judgements behind them are not the only thing to consider. Remember when the Cell Jr.'s went nuts, Goku's apology is "This wasn't supposed to happen!" While people can be detached by nature, that is also something you could blame pretty squarely on his isolated childhood, as that is something a child usually learns in a safer environment over far less-important mistakes, such as how to interact with an annoying sibling. I would peg him naive first and foremost.
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by djkalteraphine » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:41 am

Naive at first, and then just relaxed as he gets older. He'll never not be ignorant of some things, but he's learned to roll with the figurative punches on those things and leave them to his betters (Chichi, Gohan, Bulma, Kuririn).

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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by Dayspring » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:48 pm

There's even a fun page in Daizenshuu 7 about his intellectual growth. Basically, he's an idiot prior to Z (remember that at age 12 he still couldn't count and tell the difference between men and women). After that, he's just really naive, with the implication being that it's sometime between Cell and Boo that he finally matures (which I took to mean is when he becomes average in intelligence).
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by Vegitofaxx » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:50 pm

Dayspring wrote:There's even a fun page in Daizenshuu 7 about his intellectual growth. Basically, he's an idiot prior to Z (remember that at age 12 he still couldn't count and tell the difference between men and women). After that, he's just really naive, with the implication being that it's sometime between Cell and Boo that he finally matures (which I took to mean is when he becomes average in intelligence).
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:33 am

When it comes to fighting he's a genius, anything else he's naive and lacks common knowledge.
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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by Goe » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:49 am

Goku is a genious when fighting and he always have good ideas to defeat his adversaries, but is really irresponsable because he could forgive a monster like Vegeta because he wants to fight him again, or giving Cell a zensu seed to make an equal combat. He lacks knowledge about things like be married, but being ignorant is not being idiot

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Re: Is Goku an idiot, or just naive?

Post by soulnova » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:08 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Goku is naive. Very naive. Always was, always has, always will be. I never really saw Goku as an idiot, just misinformed. I mean, living in seclusion for pretty much your entire childhood and into your teens really left him with a lack of understanding society as a whole to an absurd degree. I mean, hell, he was so misinformed he didn't even know the difference between boys and girls.
Yeah, that's not even counting possible brain damage AND being a Saiyan. As far as I'm concerned, Saiyans seem to feel and think things differently than humans.
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