So what exactly is this SSGSS?

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Pantalones » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:58 pm

I figure the biggest (if not the only) difference is that the red Super Saiyan God form has a time limit. If you don't manage to figure out how to absorb the power of it--maybe as easy as not realizing you've lost the form and continuing to fight as if you still have it rather than giving up the moment the transformation ends, considering that's what Goku did? like a "willpower to keep going even when the odds are against you" sort of thing more than anything else?--red Super Saiyan God is gone forever once that limit runs out, while the blue Super Saiyan God form doesn't come with a time limit at all.

Red Super Saiyan God only showed up twice--the moment Goku first transformed, and then at the very end to block/absorb Beerus' attack. I think that second transformation is probably the point at which Goku truly absorbed the Super Saiyan God form's power into himself (prior to that he was still running on leftover god ki from the first transformation--at first he'd kind of "grabbed on" to the SSj God power as the transformation had left him before it could fade away entirely... but he hadn't taken it and made it a permanent part of his overall ki yet, hence regular Super Saiyan), and if he had gone Super Saiyan again after the end of Battle of Gods it would've been the blue form rather than the standard gold one. Basically my theory is that "godly ki entering a Saiyan's body" triggers the Super Saiyan God transformation--the first time through the ritual designed to trigger it, the second time through Goku finally subconsciously working out how to make that energy his own just in time to stop Beerus' last attack. Once you manage to do it without the ritual, that's when you gain access to the blue form.

Maybe the "skinny" look of regular Super Saiyan God is symbolic of the lack of endurance the form has, while this new blue form seems to have normal muscle levels just like how it has a normal time limit (aka none.)

I don't really get the feeling that the blue form is actually stronger than the red form, though. Any increase in strength over the last movie is most likely due to training between the two, especially since Goku and Vegeta are training under Whis now. It's more like... if there was a fusion dance that was like the Metamorian version, but instead of having a time limit the two fused beings could just decide to split back apart again whenever they felt like it. The non-time-limited dance would not be "stronger," but would still be better overall.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:06 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:
Bullza wrote:
It's just his regular SSJ transformation, only now when he transforms, he taps into his SSJG powers instead (it's just as strong as that form).
So you don't think there's any difference in strength at all between the Red and Blue versions? I guess that could be possible.

Then why was he still able to turn into a Super Saiyan after absorbing the God powers before without turning blue?
Pretty much. It's how I interpret this line, anyways:
"Goku says it’s hard to explain, but basically it’s Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." He's not implying it's stronger than SSJG, just that it has the power of SSJG instead of SSJ.

At the point he fought Beerus, he lost his SSJG powers, but absorbed most of it. Remember, he had to transform into a SSJG again to block Beerus' energy ball, meaning even after absorbing, he still became weaker at that point. Now he's able to tap into the full bulk of that power at will by transforming into a SSJ, which is what BSSJG is.
Yeah, this is how I interpreted it also. Though, the way Goku says it is like Toriyama had a hard time to think about an explanation. He could basically say: "This is what Super Saiyan is like after I've fully absorbed the power of [Super Saiyan] God." instead of "it's hard to explain". I guess I could call it 'Super Saiyan God' too (two).

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Bullza » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:21 pm

Goku absorbing that huge energy ball from Beerus was something that I was hoping would be touched upon in this movie. That really came out of nowhere with no explanation at all.

I mean is he able to absorb other Ki attacks in the same way Android 19 and 20 can? Frieza's energy ball thing seen in the trailer, couldn't he just absorb that too?

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:42 pm

Bullza wrote:Goku absorbing that huge energy ball from Beerus was something that I was hoping would be touched upon in this movie. That really came out of nowhere with no explanation at all.

I mean is he able to absorb other Ki attacks in the same way Android 19 and 20 can? Freeza's energy ball thing seen in the trailer, couldn't he just absorb that too?
I think in that instance it was like Goku was burning the last of his reserves, while now he can use it in a long way.

I think Goku's absorption ability works differently from those cyborgs. While they increase their power by absorbing energy, Goku consumes his own to absorb it.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:51 pm

I really don't think he absorbed it. Since it's never acknowledged as an actual ability anywhere as far as I know, I think it just seems more logical to say he negated it (from the inside out). Returning to Super Saiyan God gave him a final burst of stamina to use all his ki to neutralize Beerus' attack, which is why he was completely drained afterward.

My interpretation at this point anyway.
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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Low Tone G » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:56 pm

For me the whole Blue version of a Super Saiyan it's pointless after having BOG Goku using Golden Super Saiyan form with God power in BOG and put up a better fight than before as a Saiyan God at 80% of full power. That scene it really proved for me that Goku had all his God power in Base and Super Saiyan... But now it really shows that Goku's hair changes in colour if he goes full power. If we assume that Goku's absolute God full power makes his hair blue, then that must mean that Goku wasn't fighting Beerus seriously not even in the worst despair back in BOG. Which mustn't be the case.

I think the blue version is the result of training with Whis, so basically a 2nd grade of a Super Saiyan that has God power absorbed, but now that muscles don't bulk up, but the hair colour changes. As for its appearance,(even if I didn't see it) I really hate it, I consider it very ugly and way more awful that Golden Freeza.

I think The power rankings are something like this in R[F]:

Base Goku: 2(suppressing himself) - full power: 6
4th form Freeza: 0.9
Golden Freeza: 7.5 and decreasing
Blue Super Saiyan Goku: 7.5
Blue Super Saiyan Vegeta: 7.5
Blue Super Saiyan Goku(Zenkai): 8
Last edited by Low Tone G on Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Bullza » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:51 pm

I'm pretty sure they don't get zenkais anymore.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Low Tone G » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:42 pm

Bullza wrote:I'm pretty sure they don't get zenkais anymore.
Toriyama told us they do... but after introducing this Blue SSJ, I'm not sure whether(or not) has he forgotten about Golden SSJ Goku with God power from BOG? If he has, then maybe he would have also forgotten about his statement that Goku might have possibly grown stronger after the fight with Beerus because he is a Saiyan(so it stands to reason to believe that he talked about the zenkai which is typical Saiyan trait.)
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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:49 pm

I personally beleive the blue haired God form is the true state of ssj God. I mean when goku turned ssj God the first time he had a blue aura around and all of a sudden he he came red. Which I always thoughts thats weird. I think the blue God form is what it supposed to be the true version of ssj God form.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:58 pm

Low Tone G wrote:
Bullza wrote:I'm pretty sure they don't get zenkais anymore.
Toriyama told us they do... but after introducing this Blue SSJ, I'm not sure whether(or not) has he forgotten about Golden SSJ Goku with God power from BOG? If he has, then maybe he would have also forgotten about his statement that Goku might have possibly grown stronger after the fight with Beerus because he is a Saiyan(so it stands to reason to believe that he talked about the zenkai which is typical Saiyan trait.)
Toriyama said nothing about a "zenkai". That fan term is used to denote a near death power up, and that's not what Toriyama was talking about in that interview. In it he said that Saiyans get stronger as they fight and had it gone on long enough, Goku possibly could have turned the tide. This makes some amount of sense seeing how the fight is just like super harsh training, and Piccolo even picks up on this in the film. It has nothing to do with a "zenkai" though.
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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Darkprince410 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:33 pm

Low Tone G wrote:For me the whole Blue version of a Super Saiyan it's pointless after having BOG Goku using Golden Super Saiyan form with God power in BOG and put up a better fight than before as a Saiyan God at 80% of full power. That scene it really proved for me that Goku had all his God power in Base and Super Saiyan... But now it really shows that Goku's hair changes in colour if he goes full power. If we assume that Goku's absolute God full power makes his hair blue, then that must mean that Goku wasn't fighting Beerus seriously not even in the worst despair back in BOG. Which mustn't be the case.
Goku fighting Beerus relatively so well in his Ssj form indicates the opposite to me in terms of him having all his god ki in his base at the time. He had so little of that god ki left in his base form at the time that boosting his strength with Super Saiya-jin was the only way he could keep up with Beerus. Yes, his base form was stronger than it was before, but given Goku's Ssj performance and Beerus's own words on the matter, what Goku was using was only a fraction of how much power he had in his god form prior.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Bullza » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:30 pm

So basically it's this

BSSJG = RSSJG >= SSJ > Base. The later two being after he absorbed the Godly Ki.

Is that it?

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:22 pm

Bullza wrote:So basically it's this

BSSJG = RSSJG >= SSJ > Base. The later two being after he absorbed the Godly Ki.

Is that it?
Nearly, it's more like this:

BSSJG > RSSJG >= SSJ > Base

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Barunks » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:31 pm

I like to think of red super saiyan god as the no tail equivalent of the golden great ape and blue super saiyan god as the no tail equivalent of super saiyan four. They are alike in as soon as a saiyan masters the one form he takes on a completely different form right after.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:53 pm

Bullza wrote:So basically it's this

BSSJG = RSSJG >= SSJ > Base. The later two being after he absorbed the Godly Ki.

Is that it?
I would remove SSJ altogether. I think after adapting to their absorbed RSSJG strength, the BSSJG has completely replaced their SSJ form. That is what the blue hair over gold symbolizes, after all.
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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Bullza » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:37 am

So the BSSJG is the result of Goku turning into a Super Saiyan after having completely absorbed the Super Saiyan God powers and were assuming that he didn't turn blue in Battle of Gods because he hadn't fully absorbed it?

Well in any case it looks like he can freely tap into the SSJG power whenever he wants to know unlike back in Battle of Gods when it came back out of some desperation.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:46 am

Bullza wrote:So the BSSJG is the result of Goku turning into a Super Saiyan after having completely absorbed the Super Saiyan God powers and were assuming that he didn't turn blue in Battle of Gods because he hadn't fully absorbed it?
Pretty much. I just suppose the blue form is stronger than the red one because Goku and Vegeta should have gotten stronger by training under Whis. Then, it works like the blue will substitute the red or uses 100% of the red.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Marlowe89 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:09 am

First post, everyone! Glad to be a part of the Kanzenshuu community.
Lord Beerus wrote:Nearly, it's more like this:

BSSJG > RSSJG >= SSJ > Base
Nah. The implication of Goku's dialogue suggests that this is an alternate version of the first Super Saiyan form that is as powerful as Super Saiyan God, so I think it's more of a substitute than a "combination" per se. I do believe that Goku is a bit stronger than he was in BoG, but I think that's just the result of his training under Whis.

I'm also with Darkprince410 in regards to Goku's absorption of SSJG. The fact that he had to power up to SSJ after losing the form just to continue fighting Beerus, as well as the fact that he could do nothing to negate that giant energy ball until actually transforming back into SSJG, indicates to me that he never truly absorbed SSJG's power until around the time of RoF - but even then, given Goku's statement about BSSJG, I don't think his base form can tap into all of its power.

On that note, I wonder what the official name will be. "Godly Super Saiyan" would be a good one.

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Dyno » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:13 am

Marlowe89 wrote:"Godly Super Saiyan" would be a good one.
Indeed. Actually it is growing on me faster as I continue to think about it. But for now, is "Saiyan beyond God".

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Re: So what exactly is this Blue Super Saiyan God?

Post by Low Tone G » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:20 am

Bullza wrote:So basically it's this

BSSJG = RSSJG >= SSJ > Base. The later two being after he absorbed the Godly Ki.

Is that it?
I think the whole Blue Super Saiyan is bullshit as is. Goku put a better fight in Super Saiyan than did it earlier at 80% as a Red Haired Saiyan God, so he did absorb the whole realm of power into his body and being, especially when he did not notice any difference during the whole fight. I think the introduction of a Blue version of the simple Super Saiyan as "God + Super Saiyan hybrid" with an explanation that it's a Super Saiyan form with fully absorbed God Ki it contradicts the Golden version's ability to allow Goku to fully absorb the God power when it was already confirmed by the original author himself.

I think if the Blue version should be legit if it really means that it's a new addition in power to the Golden one, not to replace it and to be the only mean to fully absorb the God power. It should be a result of training.

So in that case:

Super Saiyan+God-Hybrid in Blue color > Saiyan God >/= Super Saiyan+God-Hybrid in Golden color ~ Mystic Saiyan God(Base Saiyan with God Ki absorbed)
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