Cell Arc Goku. Out of character???

[GTx10]

The original Japanese version depicts Son Kun as a "battle junky" for lack of better words. However Goku has Gohan battle Cell because he knows Gohan is stronger. Shouldn't Goku (the battle junky he is) want to train until he could surpass Cell? Not kill Cell, but rather surpass him. Two times Son has sent Gohan to beat a person, but for Beers he wanted to beat him personally. How could the same Son Goku, determined to surpass Lord Beers, give up his match to Cell? I'm utterly confused.
Now sure the 10 days was not enough time to train, but Son ignored the Room of Spirit and Time because he had "hope" or something in Son Gohan. But he had less time with Beers! Goku is a confusing man.

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku outright said he maxed out in the RoSaT and going in would do more harm than good.

[EXBadguy]

Not to start the canon debate here, but BoG ain't canon. And honestly, things like that made me wish Toriyama didn't do BoG.

Plus, as for the Cell arc Goku, I thought it was great character development for him to pass the torch and have confidence on his son.

[Marco Polo]

The idea that you can 'max out' goes against the whole spirit of the series. Shonen mangas are all about persevering, training to get better, never giving up, etc. In shonen mangas you can always get stronger and there is always someone stronger than you out there.

[Hitiro]

Not to start the canon debate here, but BoG ain't canon. And honestly, things like that made me wish Toriyama didn't do BoG.

I much prefer BoG than GT.

I don't see why it is OOC for Goku to act the way he did in the Cell arc. At least in the other fights he had some way of winning them. But in this fight there was no way he could beat Cell without Gohan doing it for him.

[GTx10]

I was under the impression that BoG and RoF were part of the Manga's timeline.

We've got two sides. One side saying character development and Goku was maxed out. The other side saying Goku lives for the sole purpose to surpass his limits. No matter how you look at it, Goku seems out of character. He's a battle junky...and a bad father. Lol

[Marlowe89]

Not to start the canon debate here, but BoG ain't canon. And honestly, things like that made me wish Toriyama didn't do BoG.

If you don't intend to start a debate then why make this argument?

And yes, it IS canon to the manga.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku really couldn't get any stronger even if he tried. As DBZAOTA482 pointed out, he flat out stated that he had reached his peak after training in the ROSAT, while Gohan had far surpassed his limits. Hence why he gambled heavily on Gohan to win.

[rereboy]

Goku really couldn't get any stronger even if he tried. As DBZAOTA482, he flat out stated the he had reached his peak after training in the ROSAT, while Gohan had far surpassed his limits. Hence why he gambled heavily on Gohan to win.

This, and he still fought his hardest to try to take out Cell. He almost did it too, with the instant Kamehameha. He only quit and let Gohan handle it when it was obvious that there was no point at all in continuing. He could have kept himself from giving Cell the senzu, though.

[FoolsGil]

Manga + BOG is one aspect of the Dragonball Expanded Universe. That aspect, is canon to that universe.

As for Goku being OOC, he's a junkie, but he's not stupid. ROSAT training would have taken him no further, and if Goku did continue his fight with Cell, he would lose, which would have definitely destroyed morale. Having Gohan fight was the best possible thing he could do to save the world, whether he needs his fix or not. That's why no matter what he is a hero.

[GTx10]

But Saiyans seemingly never fail to get stronger.
I totally see the argument that Goku still got his fix, while letting Gohan kick Cell's butt, and that's pretty valid. But this is the same man who was determined to battle Lord Beers again and he KNEW he was powerless against him. It just seems super odd to me.

[rereboy]

But Saiyans seemingly never fail to get stronger.
I totally see the argument that Goku still got his fix, while letting Gohan kick Cell's butt, and that's pretty valid. But this is the same man who was determined to battle Lord Beers again and he KNEW he was powerless against him. It just seems super odd to me.

I don't think you are getting Goku's point.

Goku knew that he had taken pretty much all he could from ROSAT training. To improve significantly, he required other kind of training because he had already fully hit the point of severe diminishing returns with the ROSAT. And there wasn't simply time to do other type of training.

I mean, look at Vegeta and Trunks. The first time they went to ROSAT, their improvements were huge and impressive. What about the second time they went in? Their improvements were so little that they didn't even managed to reach Goku's level that had only been there once. That means that Vegeta and Trunks hadn't hit the point of diminishing returns as severely as Goku the first time around but it was still significant enough for their second trip there to not be very impressive at all. A second trip for Goku would have been even less productive than it was for them.

[Hitiro]

Pretty much what the above says. Goku could get stronger from this point onwards. But the rate at which his strength would increase wouldn't be enough to make a difference. If you look at the story it took Goku and Vegeta 7 years just to catch up to Cell Games Gohan and surpass him. The only character who truly had enough strength to do anything to Cell at his full power. And even that is debatable in the community. So 2 years worth of training in 2 days would not be enough for Goku or Vegeta to get to the point where they were as strong as Gohan.

[GTx10]

Pretty much what the above says. Goku could get stronger from this point onwards. But the rate at which his strength would increase wouldn't be enough to make a difference. If you look at the story it took Goku and Vegeta 7 years just to catch up to Cell Games Gohan and surpass him. The only character who truly had enough strength to do anything to Cell at his full power. And even that is debatable in the community. So 2 years worth of training in 2 days would not be enough for Goku or Vegeta to get to the point where they were as strong as Gohan.

And allow Goku to surpass them both with Super Saiyan 3.

Maybe I'm focusing to much on Son's battle junky behavior, that its keeping me from seeing that he was smart enough (sort of) to see where he had to use some method to win the fight. The method in question is Son Gohan.

[singsing]

But Saiyans seemingly never fail to get stronger.
I totally see the argument that Goku still got his fix, while letting Gohan kick Cell's butt, and that's pretty valid. But this is the same man who was determined to battle Lord Beers again and he KNEW he was powerless against him. It just seems super odd to me.

I don't think you are getting Goku's point.

Goku knew that he had taken pretty much all he could from ROSAT training. To improve significantly, he required other kind of training because he had already fully hit the point of severe diminishing returns with the ROSAT. And there wasn't simply time to do other type of training.

I mean, look at Vegeta and Trunks. The first time they went to ROSAT, their improvements were huge and impressive. What about the second time they went in? Their improvements were so little that they didn't even managed to reach Goku's level that had only been there once. That means that Vegeta and Trunks hadn't hit the point of diminishing returns as severely as Goku the first time around but it was still significant enough for their second trip there to not be very impressive at all. A second trip for Goku would have been even less productive than it was for them.

I dunno about that, I think Vegeta and Trunks got just as much, if not more, out of their second trip. It's just that Goku got SO MUCH MORE from his first trip in general that they still couldn't even close the gap.

[GTx10]

That certainly seemed like the case. Son Kun improved so much, that Vegeta and Trunks training paled compared to his.

[dbzfan7]

I think he wanted Gohan to beat Cell. After all he wanted Gohan to be stronger than him.

Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P8.3-5
Gohan: “Dad, am I going to get in the way of your training?”
Goku: “At first, yeah. But once you’re able to become a Super Saiyan, you’ll really come in handy as a training partner, Gohan. That’s my ideal, anyway. Obviously I intend to obtain power surpassing Super Saiyan. I want to be stronger than anyone, after all. But Gohan, I intend for you to even further surpass me.”

[GTx10]

Harsh, but Goku did seem to have plans for Gohan. Maybe it goes back to that whole "I won't be around forever, so be the strongest."

[saunasolmu]

I don't think Goku would've had any problems with say, Vegeta beating Beerus. He disliked that he was given power that wasn't his own and that he could never reach by his own.

[EXBadguy]

The idea that you can 'max out' goes against the whole spirit of the series. Shonen mangas are all about persevering, training to get better, never giving up, etc. In shonen mangas you can always get stronger and there is always someone stronger than you out there.

So you wanted Goku to commit suicide or something?

Not to start the canon debate here, but BoG ain't canon. And honestly, things like that made me wish Toriyama didn't do BoG.

I much prefer BoG than GT.

While I'm the opposite, at least as of now. I used to have the BoG>GT mindset until I realize how stupid some of the modern concepts are, but let's save that for another thread.