BoG/Rof & GT are not in the same universe.

[Confidence Matters]

Even if, and I mean if, Coola's brief appearance was solely an appearance just for a cameo,

An extremely brief appearance. He didn't even have any lines or movement for crying out loud. Of all of the scenes in that GT episode, out of the 20+ min of that episode in GT, he hardly appears in what, 10 - 15 seconds/ 1 scene? That could easily be an error overlooked like there has been in the anime for AGES. Toei is known to botch lots of stuff within the continuity, usually it's with characters. For example, there is an instance where Dende is a child on Kai's planet after Kid Boo's defeat. That is a massive "continuity" error that obviously has been overlooked.

Hell, Akira Toriyama even has a few critical manga errors that botch his own continuity, and even though his manga has been revised and released a plethora of times, it's still present to this day.

the major and repeated use of the Dragon Fist, a technique that solely appeared in movie 13, isn't something so easy to sweep under the rug. It was critical in the defeat of Super #17, finished off San Shinlon, and, with a combination of the Kamehameha, nearly destroyed Ii Shinlon as well. Why is it used so much in GT yet not in either Battle of Gods or Revival of F, despite it clearly being an extremely powerful and readily usable attack, especially when it came to fighting Beerus, who he was at a disadvantage against power wise? Simple. Movie 13 doesn't exist in the same continuity as the manga, thus it doesn't exist in the same continuity as Battle of Gods or Revival of F. Since GT clearly does exist in the same continuity as movie 13 (due to the repeated and critical use of said technique, which can't be brushed aside as just a "cameo"), then it too cannot exist in the same continuity as Battle of Gods or Revival of F.

First of all, what concrete proof/statements does anyone have here which prove Movie 13 isn't canon nor in the same continuity as the Z manga?

Secondly, the use of the Dragon Fist in GT is like the use of Arale in Dragon Ball. Toei liked Super Dragon Fist a lot, Toei liked Cooler a lot, etc., so they reused them in their own series.

The use of Arale in Dragon Ball automatically connects Dr. Slump to Dragon Ball, and despite its glaring plot holes, it's still in the exact same canon continuity.

You can chalk up Cooler and Dragon Fist as glaring plot holes, but they do not invalidate the continuation of the Z manga that GT was stated officially to be.

[Hellspawn28]

The golden form has a massive weakness, like 100% full power form that Freeza also didn't use in Hell, because he realized their weaknesses.

I don't think Freeza would have to worry about using all of his ki in Hell if he used his Golden Form against Goku. When Goku was dead as SSj3, he didn't have to worry about his stamina getting lower. The same could be same for Freeza.

[Confidence Matters]

The golden form has a massive weakness, like 100% full power form that Freeza also didn't use in Hell, because he realized their weaknesses.

I don't think Freeza would have to worry about using all of his ki in Hell if he used his Golden Form against Goku. When Goku was dead as SSj3, he didn't have to worry about his stamina getting lower. The same could be same for Freeza.

Stamina and Ki are 2 different things though.


The Golden form of Frieza is not stated to behave or affect the user like SSJ3 affects Gotenks & Goku - As far as it is established, Frieza at 100% full power drains his actual battle power/ki. Full power Frieza was stated to be dropping rapidly from 120,000,000. There is no reason to believe the Golden form behaves differently, unless it was stated otherwise in the new movie/new manga.

SSj3 drains Stamina on the live user.

At any rate, Frieza in hell would still be affected by the transformation since Dead Goku SSJ3 was STILL extremely fatigued after the first battle with Fat Boo. So the forms still take their insane toll, and it is still a wise move to avoid them altogether and increase the strongest, most comfortable form instead. Frieza is an even bigger prodigy than Goku & Vegeta - if they figured it out with their transformations, Friea certainly did so as well.

[Darkprince410]

SSj3 drains Stamina on the live user.

Goku specifically states though that the downside of using it in a living body is the ki drain. Nothing about stamina.

Goku: “Da-dammit…When I was dead, it was no problem at all…It seems that in the end, becoming a Super Saiyan 3 with a living body eats up an excessive amount of ki…”

Therefore, Freeza should likewise have far less pronounced of a ki drain with a dead body than he would a living one.

Regardless, it doesn't explain why Freeza and Cell would be able to train in Hell when Revival of F establishes that, at best, they'd be trapped in cocoons, unable to escape from whatever punishment is set upon them.

[Confidence Matters]

SSj3 drains Stamina on the live user.

Goku specifically states though that the downside of using it in a living body is the ki drain. Nothing about stamina.

Goku: “Da-dammit…When I was dead, it was no problem at all…It seems that in the end, becoming a Super Saiyan 3 with a living body eats up an excessive amount of ki…”

Therefore, Freeza should likewise have far less pronounced of a ki drain with a dead body than he would a living one.

Regardless, it doesn't explain why Freeza and Cell would be able to train in Hell when Revival of F establishes that, at best, they'd be trapped in cocoons, unable to escape from whatever punishment is set upon them.

Whatever the case with SSJ3, that only further prove my point - SSJ3 was a bit easier on Dead Goku than it was on Live Goku, but Goku still experience some extreme fatigue after a few seconds fighting Fat Boo.

Since Golden Frieza is FAR, FAR beyond SSJ3, it is only logical that its ki consumption - if like SSJ3 - is still insane on Frieza's dead body. Probably amplified to the point where the form simply isn't viable anymore after he got wrecked in ROF. Therefore, once again, it is MUCH wiser for Frieza to instead train his most comfortable and strongest form instead.

Hell, the 100% full power form was absent in GT as well, so it strengthens my point.

As for how they trained in Hell, that is just simply something we chalk up to plot hole/discrepancy. Since it has never been officially explained, and conflicts with the manga's statement(s).

[Duo]

Even if you can find a way to make the new movies fit with GT, it doesn't change the fact that GT was written long before those movies and stories existed, so there is no possible way it accounted for these events at the time. So, even if you want to mash them together, it would be incorrect to say GT was written with these things in mind. That's always going to cause some problems, especially in relationship to Pilaf & co.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

toei stated that BOG happens before GT and the chozenshuu puts them in the same timeline. consistency has nothing to do with something being part of the continuity. the fans dont get to decide the continuity of the series, only toei and toriyama can do that.

[Confidence Matters]

Even if you can find a way to make the new movies fit with GT, it doesn't change the fact that GT was written long before those movies and stories existed, so there is no possible way it accounted for these events at the time. So, even if you want to mash them together, it would be incorrect to say GT was written with these things in mind. That's always going to cause some problems, especially in relationship to Pilaf & co.

Chapter 519 was written long before those movie stories existed, so there is no possible way it accounted for these events at the time. So, even if you want to mash them together, it would be incorrect to say Chapter 519 was written with these things in mind. That's always going to cause some problems, especially in relationship to Godku not only getting SUPER excited and worried about Uub, but also being equal with him at 100% Godku power (Uub kicked Godku so hard, it wobbled his arm hella hard, and his Ki Cannon actually caused a lot of damage to Godku who was going all out in his base God form).

[Confidence Matters]

toei stated that BOG happens before GT and the chozenshuu puts them in the same timeline. consistency has nothing to do with something being part of the continuity. the fans dont get to decide the continuity of the series, only toei and toriyama can do that.

oh shit, is this true? anyone have a link to this? because this would be the nail in the coffin for good

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

toei stated that BOG happens before GT and the chozenshuu puts them in the same timeline. consistency has nothing to do with something being part of the continuity. the fans dont get to decide the continuity of the series, only toei and toriyama can do that.

oh shit, is this true? anyone have a link to this? because this would be the nail in the coffin for good

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2012/09/26/to ... l-z-movie/

"An episode from between the animation series “Z” and “GT”, or in other words from the blank decade between the end of the battle with Majin Buu in chapter 517 of the manga and chapter 518, will be depicted for the first time."

as for the chozenshuu

Spoiler:

it includes dbgt, battle of gods, the manga, the yo son goku special etc.
Age 778 the Tenka'ichi Budokai happens on may, 7 which is the 26th tournament. beerus and whis arrive the same year [ビルス と ウイス...]. dbgt happens after that.

[Confidence Matters]

toei stated that BOG happens before GT and the chozenshuu puts them in the same timeline. consistency has nothing to do with something being part of the continuity. the fans dont get to decide the continuity of the series, only toei and toriyama can do that.

oh shit, is this true? anyone have a link to this? because this would be the nail in the coffin for good

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2012/09/26/to ... l-z-movie/

An episode from between the animation series “Z” and “GT”, or in other words from the blank decade between the end of the battle with Majin Buu in chapter 517 of the manga and chapter 518, will be depicted for the first time.

as for the chozenshuu

Spoiler:

it includes dbgt, battle of gods, the manga, the yo son goku special etc.
Age 778 the Tenka'ichi Budokai happens on may, 7 which is the 26th tournament. beerus and whis arrive the same year [ビルス と ウイス...]. dbgt happens after that.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND it's over.

BOG & ROF officially exist in GT.

WWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

How isn't this stickied

[Marlowe89]

Regardless of whatever Chozenshuu 4's stance on the matter is, I think that most people are perfectly capable of observing the countless enormous inconsistencies between BoG/RoF and GT. I'm not even really sure why this is debatable. People are certainly entitled to believe that they all fit in one continuity, but it's hard to deny that it would all be one very questionable - and very messy - timeline.

I also think that, regardless of the semantics revolving around the term "canon", Toei's advertising and a statement from Toriyama make it pretty clear to me that the "Gods" duology is officially considered to be a continuation of the manga serialization as opposed to being relegated to an anime-only thing.

[Saiyan007]

They clearly aren't in the same timeline no matter why guides say(also ignoring those huides came out before Bog and Rof)

Goku using SSJ4 which is a clearly inferior form to SSJG

Freeza in hell is different from Gt

Freeza golden form is no where to be seen in Gt

Goku's blue SSJG form is no where as well as Vegeta's blue SSJG form

Vegeta is a lot weaker than Goku for most of Gt where in the canon series Vegeta is not that far behind Goku seeing as he has a God form

Cooler was in Gt which alone tells you it's a different timeline

So all in all Gt is a different timeline from the actual series and it won't ever be apart of the main series unless it's actually mentioned no guidebook is going to change that

[TheDevilsCorpse]

as for the chozenshuu

Spoiler:

Nitpicking here. Chozenshu #4 uses the same timeline, but that picture isn't from said book. That's from the the latest Toriyama art exhibit book (another "World" release? I don't remember). The Chozenshu separates the timelines out by arcs and uses images from the Full Color manga to go along with the events (anime for GT, since a traditional manga obviously doesn't exist).

[Confidence Matters]

They clearly aren't in the same timeline no matter why guides say(also ignoring those huides came out before Bog and Rof)

Goku using SSJ4 which is a clearly inferior form to SSJG

Freeza in hell is different from Gt

Freeza golden form is no where to be seen in Gt

Goku's blue SSJG form is no where as well as Vegeta's blue SSJG form

Vegeta is a lot weaker than Goku for most of Gt where in the canon series Vegeta is not that far behind Goku seeing as he has a God form

Cooler was in Gt which alone tells you it's a different timeline

So all in all Gt is a different timeline from the actual series and it won't ever be apart of the main series unless it's actually mentioned no guidebook is going to change that

Give it up, you're battling against official statements from the heads of the series themselves.

You can hate on GT all you want, it's your opinion, and you totally have a right to make a case as to why GT shouldn't be canon/a continuation of the Z manga (and I'd be inclined to even agree!), but you simply cannot say it factually isn't, because it factually is.

GT is canon and a continuation of the Z manga events. There is nothing anyone can say/do about that.

[Dyno]

No, actually there are far more "things" pointing Dragon Ball GT is not canon. There aren't statements saying he is part of the main continuity, on the other hand, there are statements saying he isn't meant to be taken as a real continuation. But you know... You can have your... What do they say/call? "Headcanon", isn't?

[Sora Saiyan]

It's pretty clear that they aren't in the same universe, we have Golden Freeza now, Blue SSJ, Toriyamas hell, the Pilaf gang being too young etc. there's too many things going against the new movies and GT fitting together. A lot of things need to happen for BoG and RoF to fit with GT so for now, as things stand, it's impossible.

[Marlowe89]

Give it up, you're battling against official statements from the heads of the series themselves.

You can hate on GT all you want, it's your opinion, and you totally have a right to make a case as to why GT shouldn't be canon/a continuation of the Z manga (and I'd be inclined to even agree!), but you simply cannot say it factually isn't, because it factually is.

GT is canon and a continuation of the Z manga events. There is nothing anyone can say/do about that.

GT was included on a timeline in an official book compiled by various people who are not Toriyama - this is hardly the same thing as a "statement" that "GT is canon and a continuation of the Z manga events". Chozenshuu is supplementary material officially branded under the Dragon Ball franchise, but so is Xenoverse, and that game explicitly clarifies all of GT's events to be under a completely alternate timeline from DBZ's.

So from an official standpoint, the notion of GT being in the same continuity as BoG and RoF is heavily disputable at best and outright false at worst.

[Saiyan007]

They clearly aren't in the same timeline no matter why guides say(also ignoring those huides came out before Bog and Rof)

Goku using SSJ4 which is a clearly inferior form to SSJG

Freeza in hell is different from Gt

Freeza golden form is no where to be seen in Gt

Goku's blue SSJG form is no where as well as Vegeta's blue SSJG form

Vegeta is a lot weaker than Goku for most of Gt where in the canon series Vegeta is not that far behind Goku seeing as he has a God form

Cooler was in Gt which alone tells you it's a different timeline

So all in all Gt is a different timeline from the actual series and it won't ever be apart of the main series unless it's actually mentioned no guidebook is going to change that

Give it up, you're battling against official statements from the heads of the series themselves.

You can hate on GT all you want, it's your opinion, and you totally have a right to make a case as to why GT shouldn't be canon/a continuation of the Z manga (and I'd be inclined to even agree!), but you simply cannot say it factually isn't, because it factually is.

GT is canon and a continuation of the Z manga events. There is nothing anyone can say/do about that.

Official statements? ?

Akira Toriyama already said Gt is nothing but a side story

I can say Gt isn't canon to Bog and Rof because it isn't for numerous reasons as I've and others pointed out

Akira certainly doesn't think of GT as a continuation of his story

Gt will more than likely never be canon

[Bacon Skittles]

Wasn't there a Vsau e video that said something about if you have to come up with more and more explanations to prove your point, it's most likely false? This is what's happening with those who connect RoF and GT. Many many many changes would have to occur after RoF and GT. Let's not forget to mention that several more wishes from Shenron have been made. Surely the dragon balls would have been corrupt long before GT. Plus with Shenron being summoned in Wrath of the Dragon as well, that's 4 or so wishes being granted in a 5 or so year time frame. The ones throughout Dragon Ball to Z were a bit more spread out.

Here's some things that would have to happen for the two timelines to somehow connect:

Pilaf and the gang getting the Dragon Balls again and wishing to be old

Goku and Vegeta losing their God forms, which I've heard that SSGSS is permanent now (as in no gold hair.) Plus any Ki increase they received would have to go as well.